...to feel slightly annoyed when people claim to be "living in poverty"

[ihateconflict]

...and have huge TVs/smoke/drink/have a holiday abroad each year/wear designer clothes and shoes and handbags, and have all the latest electronic gadgets. In contrast, as a "middle class" (hate this label) professional living in an expensive area, i cant afford any of the above (dont smoke or drink, so dont include those). We havent had any holiday for 5 years, let alone one abroad. AND, when DCs were at school, their friends with EMA allowance were the ones who had driving lessons for their 17th birthday, and cars for their 18th birthday. My DCs had to pay for own driving lessons, and didnt get cars until they finished uni and were earning. I am full of sympathy for those in "genuine" poverty, but somewhere priorities and definitions seem a bit wrong

A goady thread is a thread that I would describe as deliberately provocative. You probably didnt get it becaues goady is a bit of a non word, i made it up, see. But im sure you can see the connection now.

I am sorry you feel traumatised by this thread, but at least you realise that mnet isn't a place that will just accept without question opinions that are wrong. I sort of get where you are coming from - i think we probably all have freinds who whine about being "poor" but it really is all relative.

I wont be able to pay my mortgage this month because I have been fucked over by my job and they had me on short term contracts so i have no protection. So i am feeling pretty "poor" just now - but compared to someone in a third world country im pretty rich because at least if i do lose my house (likely) i would hope that we will be housed, even if it is in temporary accomodation, i hope

Thankyou mrsjay excellent post

now seriously confused, this was not a "goady" thread, didnt even know what a goady thread meant, and what is the goat. i have much to learn

Chocolate, in a civil democracy, surely there is an acceptable level of 'poverty'?

I thought it was called the social contract, weonce that breaks down and people have no vested interest in civil society, we see civil disobediance, riot, lawlessness.

Is that where we want to go?

I don't really know anyone who says they are living in poverty but I know plenty of people who suggest they are a but poor (bit like the OP) most of whom earn upwards of 40k household income.

I was discussing this with my partner and we were saying that the things we as a nation consider normal were the preserve of the well off 40 or so years ago. My working class grandparents would never have had holidays, a bottle or two of wine a week, take aways, meals out etc. They could afford to heat their place and feed and clothe the family though so would never have considered themselves poor.
People seem to take for granted things that used to be seen as luxuries for the rich.

Back in my grandparents' day . . . Well, guess what? We don't live anymore. Why aspire to have that same shit standard of life and if you don't then you just don't know? What a backwards and outdated mentality, puerile and lazy.

'My parents didn't have all these gadgets!' No shit! No one did, because they didn't exist.

Just stick to doctoring OP, you don't have time for this shit!

mrsjay - so you have proved me right then. In this country there is free access to a GP, free schools, clean water and sanitation as well as a safety net to fall into in the form of state help.

I am not judging, i thank god we have these things and don't allow people to give birth on the streets and send kids out begging. I thank god we don't have to walk miles just to get water and can send our kids to schools and be able to get medical attention. Thank god poverty isn't a reality in this country.

God? Haaahaaa. That absentee landlord?

there is also other words on the definition chocolate not just the ones you have picked out to prove your point

FUndamentally poverty is a denial of choices and opportunity is the first line, also look at child action on poverty UK makes depressing reading that children live like this in the UK but as long as they are not on the streets eh, as I said before you can not and should not compare misery ,

Sorry chocolate but you can't pick and choose from that description! Poverty is a grim reality in this country - it is just well hidden

cross posts mrsjay

How many people living on benefits do you know who are taking overseas holidays though (apart from those on the aged pension) ? Electronic items can be quite cheap these days, picked up from the verge for council cleanup because it just has a blown fuse etc and it just takes five minutes to get it mended. Designer clothes could be fake, homemade or ... bought off the back of a truck . Also, you might be assuming they are on benefits because of the way they speak/look but it might not be the case at all. People always seem to assume I'm a single mum on Struggle St ( and no, I don't cry poor) and probably think I look like a chavi but that's not the case at all ( well the single mum on Struggle St bit at least). We don't get a cent in benefits. Suits me fine because they waive admin, bus fees etc ...

We live on JSA we're not broke all the time we cut our cloth the best we can and I spend an obsessive amount of time getting the best deals I can for example I'm pregnant and obviously needed baby stuff I've spent about £100 and we're almost done, Ebay was amazing and Amazon family got me £10 off two of our big items.

We own a xbox 360 I won it, 2 Nintendo DS both purchased from family for £20 each, 2 Kindles brought with budgeting loans so we can at least read the free books with DC, a 38" flatscreen TV brought through brighthouse when we had no other options, A Laptop that my FIL gave to me oh and a Wii I paid £40 for over the course of a month for DD's Xmas present.

I'd happily give up some of our benefits if it meant people like Owllady would get them instead I'd just cut our cloth again and somehow we would survive because you have to when there's no other choice, when your DH applies for 20 jobs a week and is lucky to get a rejection letter from just one of them.

We're lucky in that we had no debt and we had the safety net to catch us. We're lucky that we were well educated regarding money and didn't make the stupid mistakes a lot of people on benefits do make that leave them trapped in poverty for decades with no foreseeable way out and what feels to them like a hopeless future.

I've seen my working class MIL become severely disabled and almost become homeless with our help she managed to keep a home but had to let her house go for nothing to do so, she's trapped because of her disability and because of her lack of knowledge about money. We need to educate our children about making good choices with their money and stop the cycle. Companies like Brighthouse do so well because they serve a purpose if our children know they have another choice and why that choice is the better one then Brighthouse will no longer serve its purpose and will be gone from our high streets.

Until then I think its best if we just stop judging everyone no matter how much money they have for the choices they make, they might just not know any better and ignorance does not make a bad person.

The definition you used to decribe poverty proves it doesn't exist in the UK. Stop confusing the word poor with poverty. The help we have in the UK compared to places with real poverty is huge.

have that same shit standard of life

I actually find that grossly insulting. Being well fed, warm and sheltered is not shit.

The difference is that far too may people now expect luxuries regardless of whether they have the money to pay for them.

TBH the is the WHO definition not my words

I believe they have tvs iphones etc from places like bright house, i think its called, and those on job seekers can get interest free crisis loans to pay for there ugg boots, discounts on some bills, no rent or council tax to worry about. Shop in the cheapest pleaces, iceland and aldi to have money to smoke and drink, buy clothes second hand or primark. Im in no way saying this is everyone on benefits! I am in no way classed as middle class, but we're not living in poverty but we rarely have any money left at the end of the month, its how you spend your money.

anybody else feel like your talking to yourself on this thread ?

I've done a few projects on poverty & it's very interesting to hear what people's perceptions of poverty are. The government has a definition of poverty & if you're on Statutory Maternity pay then technically you're in poverty (if that's your only income) I have been to people's houses with the gadgets & gizmos and listened to their stories pleading poverty. I've also met those who have literally nothing & my heart really goes out to them. There is such a thing as relative poverty & I think people comparing themselves to those who have more are those who end up getting into debt. I do understand the OP's point of view though.

MrsDeVere - the point is, in this country even poor people have FREE healthcare, FREE education, FREE money as a safety net to live. This is a good thing because it means the poorest in our society are not left to die on the streets with their children. People in real poverty don't get FREE anything, they either work to survive or they die of poverty.

Wot MrsDeVere said. I mean, moaning that you live in an expensive area but can't afford holidays. Hardly the same as queueing at the food bank is it?

I have been in peoples houses with mould up walls bathrooms in disrepair not enough money to put in their meters and have a wii for the kids because their kids cant go out anywhere not even to the park because the park is in ruins or there is no lovely green space to walk or feed the ducks, its fucking tragic how people are expected to live in this country

It makes me laugh when people bang on about 'the good old days'

Yeah well my good old days weren't that good TBH.No bathroom,no heating holes in shoes etc. [tiny violin]

Would I want to go back to that, like fuck would I.