...to feel slightly annoyed when people claim to be "living in poverty"

[ihateconflict]

...and have huge TVs/smoke/drink/have a holiday abroad each year/wear designer clothes and shoes and handbags, and have all the latest electronic gadgets. In contrast, as a "middle class" (hate this label) professional living in an expensive area, i cant afford any of the above (dont smoke or drink, so dont include those). We havent had any holiday for 5 years, let alone one abroad. AND, when DCs were at school, their friends with EMA allowance were the ones who had driving lessons for their 17th birthday, and cars for their 18th birthday. My DCs had to pay for own driving lessons, and didnt get cars until they finished uni and were earning. I am full of sympathy for those in "genuine" poverty, but somewhere priorities and definitions seem a bit wrong

Competitive poverty has arrived! 'When I was a kid, we were so poor my mum used to spit on us for a wash, and dry us with her breath. But we weren't in poverty, no, we doffed our caps and went down the pits for 5AM.'

and we had an old hag who wore blinkers type thing expat?

owl By social utopia I meant the place that 'expat' wants where regardless of how little money you have, you have whatever you wish whenever you wish for it. Not access to NHS, food, shelter, warmth etc. Most people realise that not everybody can everything they desire..otherwise I would be in Vegas at the moment not on mumsnet....

Owllady - why make it sound like i was judging poor people for smoking when i wasn't? I was using that as an example of someone judging me for having a £2.00 "rich person luxury" coffee when they themself spend several times that amount per week on smoking.

Plus Dominomonkey wasn't implying that poor people shouldn't have anything. She was saying that it is wrong for people to expect to have the same regardless of what they earn which isn't the same as saying poor people don't deserve anything.

Ineedagoldennickname that's why I thought I'd post the most up to date one so you could see how the poverty income level has increased and therefore you need an even bigger income to go above the poverty line. Interestingly though because of the recession fewer people are 'technically' in poverty because the median has shifted downwards i.e. everyone is a little bit poorer so the poverty line dropped.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18436795

I'm going linktastic tonight!

I'm in the bottom 10%, with a higher income than 2% of the population.

I don't consider myself poor though, bit maybe that's because I don't want much by way of material possessions, and we have everything we need.

expatinscotland - there is no competition poverty. I was being made out like i was some posh kid who took a gap year and fed a silver spoon so i have pointed out that i was actually the kind of kid that is being described as living in poverty - which i certainly was not!

£2 coffee is hardly extravagant, do you buy mellow birds?

it does sound like you are judging. If you have ever lived rural you do not have heating or power if you run out or get cut off, even in this country and believe me even if you pay you get cut off regular so there is no point stocking up but we buy lots of tins which we can eat cold and I have said, we are not poor. I know many who are unfortunately and running water is lovely, but it doesn't keep you warm when it is -12

Owllady - the point was, to her spending £2.00 on a coffee is extravagant and the general drift was it's ok for some who can afford to spend £2.00 just on a coffee. Which is why i pointed out that her smoking habit costs more than was she conciders to be an extravagant purchase ie: a Costa coffee.

I don't know what mallow birds is?

it's a brand of coffee :o I was a child of te 80s. My socialist parents refused to buy it because it was too cheap and tasted like urine or something

Could you buy a gas ring thing whatever they are called that someone would use when camping to at least heat the beans?

Is Costa coffee only £2? I thought it was more!

For a small basic coffee it's £2.00. Latte etc are more

Oh ok! Can you tell I never go to Costa!

they have one in our leisure centre but i only ever buy hot chocolate which is about £2.20

For your perusal Chocolate.

A large crowd in the Hope Centre are from Romania, and say they are waiting for food because collecting scrap metal and washing cars isn't enough to make ends meet. A bigger number is there because of benefit delays and cuts, or simply because they are no longer able to make their low wages stretch.

A local supermarket has delivered a load of stock just about to reach its sell-by date (it doesn't want to be named, to avoid getting caught up in discussion of the merits of giving food that is about to go off to the hungry) and today it is offloading industrial quantities of iced buns, which several families take home by the dozen.

The boom in Britain's food banks reflects a number of worrying and complicated trends. As well as rising unemployment, more people are seeing their hours cut at work. For the past couple of years, charities have been warning that a shift to a less generous way of uprating benefits in line with inflation, combined with rising food and fuel prices, would make life more difficult for people claiming benefits. Then there is the start of a new, harsher benefits regime, as a result of which it seems that more claimants are having their payments sanctioned ? cut or stopped entirely ? if they miss appointments. At the same time, the state system of a social fund and crisis loans is being wound down, so emergency cash payments from the welfare system for those deemed to be in extreme need are now exceptionally difficult to procure. Around 43% of visitors to Trussell Trust distribution centres nationwide come because of changes to their benefits or a crisis loan being refused.

From this article.

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jul/18/food-banks-on-hand-outs?INTCMP=SRCH

My neighbours sometimes get takeaways for several nights in a row

A large bag of chips between six of them because when there is no gas or electricity there is no way of storing or cooking food. No fuel and it is February.

Yes they have a few more DC / things on tick than I can afford, but bloody hell I don't envy them.

You would feel much less annoyed if you did the exercise MrsDV suggests. Count your blessings.

Maybe swop those rose coloured nostalgia specs for something clearer and ask your mum just how much fun it was to be skint and a have a family to feed.

that (excuse my lazy response but I cant put it better) the lack of empathy and understanding really upset me

My dad grew up in a home that didn't even have running water. He thought it sucked and has every sympathy for people who are poor, not, 'Well, we were probably poor through frivolous spending. All who are poor are. So fuck 'em.'

I'm a lone parent with two under 6 and no financial assistance from their father. I am not working at present, although intend to when my youngest starts school is Autumn.

I have £1.26 left in my bank, my text has just informed me this morning.

There will be nothing in there until main benefits are paid in next Friday, although luckily my child benefit is paid weekly so I will have £33 tomorrow, enough to buy some food shopping for the three of us.

I have no savings or access to credit facilities. I only have utility bills and social fund loans debt. I don't drive, smoke, drink, socialise or have satellite tele or shopping catalogues.

Things will get worse in a few months when I have to start buying new uniform for start of Reception year and my 5.5 year old who is having monthly grow spurts it seems!

I am about to apply for bankruptcy, as I just can't clear those debts.

I would say I am living in poverty...

Snowme that's awful. Sorry. I know saying it does absolutely nothing to help but it is bloody terrible that you are in that situation and I didn't want to read your incredibly dignified message and not respond.

I really hope things get better.

yy PleasePudding.

I sincerely hope that things start looking up come September, Snow

Snowme, I?m sorry for your situation. (I?m a LP in dire straits too)

I?m really sorry but I?m pretty sure social fund crisis or budgeting loans became excluded debts in 2012. In other words even if you declare bankruptcy, you will still owe them I?m afraid. Please check before going through with it.

My debts are to the DWP through no fault of my own, and they have the power to write them off as it was their mistake that caused them, but they won?t. It?s made me scared to ask for help.

I did owe utilities; we are finally clear using Fuel Direct, and that tight a level of energy awareness has taught us that we simply can?t afford heat unless we can live without something else.

Fuel direct system: you ask for your benefit payment to be tithed at source to pay current utility bills and debt, paying off the previous debt at around £3.50 a week, along with currant usage. (they can?t cut you off if you have this arrangement no matter how slowly it repays)
The catch is, if paying it will leave you with too little to live on in their opinion they can refuse, so if the debts big, the trick is to find out what the max figure they?ll allow, (you may have to be pushy) subtract approx. £3.50, and whatever the difference is, is how much you can spend on weekly energy from now on.

Out of interest is the school uniform a particular colour or very strict?