AIBU to think you can still stay together for the sake of the children and it work out

[fluckered]

we cant seem to live together anymore. things out of our control his depression and my lack of tolerance to live with it anymore. we have one child. 80% of the time we are just living as lodgers no arguments. every once in a while it kicks off but we both shield our son (either in school or asleep). therefore i feel it will be worse on him if we seperate as we can actually live with eachother. no physical contact, very little emotion, just going through the motions. i feel deep down we still do love each other but i feel trapped and stuck but because i can just get on with it (other than it flaring up once in a while as i'm sure other couples do) think its better for ds. he is my focus, my world, my reason for living. so aibu to think this arrangement is less damaging for him? he is 5 btw

Great post from Annie.

They're prioritising their partners' needs above everyones - their own and their children's. Not in any way. You could not be more wrong. DD comes first, DSD second and me third. DH barely registers.

So leave him, then.

You know you don't mean this for a second. Of course you're prioritising your DH. Everything actually revolves around your DH.

If he barely registered, you'd leave him. But he doesn't barely register. He's the enormous, ever-present white elephant in the room, which everyone is tiptoeing around, living their lives around.

I might be missing the point here, but what makes you all think that if NC left her DH she would get custody of her DSD?

I can understand staying with a man I didn't love it it meant I could protect a child.

Hey Fluckered just so you know you ar not the only one. My veiw is we had these kids together we will bloody well raise them together. I would rather tell my kids their dad is dead then he has left them. i have yet to come across a child from a broken home who is happier about it than they would be if their parent s stayed together. i suppose we at least live fairly amicably, maybe if it got the point where we really hated each other or violence or drugs/alcohol was involved it would be different. but it all very civilised and polite and for personal fulfilment Ihave my friends who i could not live without!

She was talking about her own DD not her DSD who I assume lives with her mother the majority of the time.

She said DSD is only there at weekends.

i have yet to come across a child from a broken home who is happier about it than they would be if their parent s stayed together

You've not read the thread then?

Also my home wasn't 'broken' it was fully intact, just my parents were not together.

I would rather tell my kids their dad is dead then he has left them

Nice.

Well, you've just met me then, Doubletroublemummy2. I'm very thankful that my parents split. I'm pissed of with my dad for then ignoring me, but that's a separate issue.

You realise that parents can still both be wonderful and involved parents to their children without actually living under the same roof, yes?

why can't they do it under the same roof??? if they are not resentful to each other or fighting, but sharing the accomodation and the job of raising children why is it always better to be in a different house just because they aren't in love?

My parents where forever honest, constantly pointing out each others flaws, always on the verge of splitting up, they are now over 60 and still forever at each others throught all in the name of honesty! when DSis and I would ask why not split up, they said they loved each other!?!?!?!?

I don't see how my situaton is damaging for my children, as for DH TBH he is more than a little oblivious so no harm , i don't hate him, but I'm not in love with him either and maybe when the girls are older i will tell them about it

What example are you settings your dds Doubletrouble? That they don't deserve/can't have relationships that make them happy? Because I was in your dds' situation and that's what I learned.

Absolutley they can and do, and like i said when they are older we can talk about it I can try to tell them what mistakes I made and how they can possibly avoid them, but they are only 4 yrs old and I believe that at this age family stability is vital. Maybe when they are older I may reconsider, maybe things have changed by then, unlikley but heres hoping.

the example i hope i would set is sometimes people make mistakes, but they are not always the end of the world.

Hi OP, are you still here? Just wondering what your thoughts are on how this thread has developed?

Hello Annie, thank you for your post, lots more to think about.

I will not divorce. DH will stand a good chance of becoming resident parent. Not because he will want to, but because he knows it will hurt me. I could not live with that and will not take the chance. How do I prove to the court that DH is not safe to have DD and DSD alone? How do I prove a functioning alcoholic is an alcoholic? How do I prove that they wouldn't be looked after?

And when you say 5) Your DDs will grow up thinking that it's okay/normal for a man to not work either in or outside the home, while the women provides the money and takes on the domestic responsibility Like a SAHM? Sorry to be flippant but I don't see the difference. She sees me cook because she knows dad is a bad cook, and the cleaning is done after she is in bed so that I have time for her.

And Amber She was talking about her own DD not her DSD who I assume lives with her mother the majority of the time. Yes but I cannot guarantee residency of DD, and if DH and I split I wouldn't see DSD again. I cannot do that to her, or me.

And this I can understand staying with a man I didn't love it it meant I could protect a child. This is my reasoning.

Thank you all for your comments.

i empathise. if i were to get divorced, i would end up broke and debt ridden, and maybe only see my children half the time. i would probably not be able to bring them back to my home country to visit, since my husband could easily claim i was abducting them

or

i could stay married, and make the best of it, and though i would be stuck here, at least get to go home to visit, and bring my children to see my country.

for me, it would be a no-brainer. my children might see me making do in a marriage, but how happy and fulfilling does my post divorce reality sound?

it is not always as easy or clearcut as some posters make out.

i would say though that in my own case, if i were this unhappy, i would only suck it up until the kids had left home, no way would i be around any longer than that

Barring threads about sexual abuse, I would say this is one of the grimmest threads I have ever read on here.

I agree flippinada.

And Amber She was talking about her own DD not her DSD who I assume lives with her mother the majority of the time. Yes but I cannot guarantee residency of DD, and if DH and I split I wouldn't see DSD again. I cannot do that to her, or me

So because of your need to be involved with your DSD, you are willing to subject her to your dysfunctional marriage?

The residency of your DD thing, he doesn't have residency of your DSD so why would he want/get residency of your DD?

From the experiences of people close to me, there is much allegation and little proof involved in such matters, get a good solicitor and stick to your guns.

I do not believe for one minute your DH would get residency of your DD under the circumstances.

Neither do I.

And do you know what? It's really not about all the things you do do, to try to pull the wool over your daughter's eyes. It's about all the things you don't do. Which she will see in other relationships as soon as she goes out into world (i.e. very soon).

You know, sitting up chatting until gone midnight, putting the world to rights. Flopping on the sofa, with DH's legs over you, watching TV. Grabbing each other when a song comes on the radio and samba-ing badly around the kitchen. Taking the piss out of each other. Having private jokes. Raucous, shared laughter. Exchanging glances which convey full conversations without a word having to be said. Your children coming into your bedroom in the morning and finding the two of you sleepily entwined. Etc, etc.

A million and one little things that loving couples do, that existing-together couples absolutely do not.

Doubletrouble, you seem to be speaking of a different marriage to fluckered and ChangeNamer; if I get you right, yours is not actually a marriage where you and your dh have lost respect for each other or feel hostile, but simply one where you have fallen out of love (whatever that may mean). I don't think two adults taking a joint responsibility to stay together under those circumstances will do any child any harm, particularly not if they are prepared to be open and positive about it when the children grow older.

But fluckered was speaking of her lack of tolerance of her dh and ChangeNamer of actually fantasising of his death. That is a totally different level. Neither of them was mentioning a situation where two adults could openly make an honest decision: ChangeNamer was talking about being an excellent actress and concealing the truth from her dd.

From what I have seen in life, two people who respect each other and decide to stay together as friends can provide a very stable family life for their children.

People who disrespect each other but pretend affection otoh will force their children into pretending too as they grow older, and those are the children who always seem to speak with great bitterness of their childhood.

The problem has often seemed to be that when the children realised that their mum was lying convincingly about her love for their dad, they didn't trust her on any other subject either: if she could be such a good actress about that, perhaps she was an equally good actress when she pretended love for them?

If their dad could lie convincingly to them, maybe other men did too and you could never be sure of any protestations of love?

And teenagers who feel they have to act and cover up what they know to spare their parents' feelings often end up with enormous levels of self hatred.

I have recently seen a teenager become aware that nothing he had been told or show about his parents' relationship was actually true, and it was sickening to see how the ground was suddenly pulled from under his feet and he was left doubting that anything he had learnt in life was to be relied on. This could have been avoided if he had been told calmly and cheerfully 10 years earlier that your dad and I are not actually a couple any more, but we are still spending a lot of time together so we can both be with you because we both love you.

So those of you who stay in marriages that are accompanied by a genuine inability to respect your partner, please do think about how you are going to handle this when they grow old enough to demand honesty. Not filling their ears with recriminations of your partners, surely, but please find a gentle way of being honest before the ground is suddenly pulled from under their feet.

cory - that is one of the best and most insightful posts I've seen on MN.

As a child of such a marriage (where the parents have no respect for each other), I can say you are bang on the mark. I have issues with believing that others might really love or like me, despite what they say, and both myself and my sibling suffer from depression.

Changenaming - All I'll respond to is this: SAHP's actually work in the house. Your DDs see your DH doing nothing. So that is what they will expect of the men in their future too.

Everyone else has covered all the other points.

cory that post sums up exactly how I felt as a teen.

This thread has been quite cathartic to read, as someone who grew up with parents in a marriage like this. I always wondered how I turned out so fucked up, my parents were together, surely only 'children from broken homes' feel like this.

Lots of counselling sorted me out in the end. Interestingly, the relationship I now have with my mum is quite distant - polite, friendly but distant with little genuine affection on my part. Just like the one she modeled to me by staying with my dad.

AKiss - interesting, my relationship with my mother is also very strained.

For all those who are considering staying in this type of relationship - are you willing to lose that long term relationship with your children?

Cory your presumtions are based on information I haven't given, but anyway. I think if people really believe theat most children grow up in loving families where mommy and daddy are true loves dream, then they are misguided. There are more "dysfunctional" relationships out there than any other. We just don't talk about it. One thing I have learnt, that I hope my girls learn before they make a mistake like I did is that we are each responsible for our own happiness and cannot rely on someone else to make us happy. My relationship with my husband may not be good but my relationship with myself is. I have found out how to be happy in myself and maybe if I had figured this out before I married "a man who made me happy" i wouldn't have made that mistake. But i did and now I have to live with it. I don't intend on keeping this a secret from teenage girls but at 4yrs old it's a bit much to try and explain adult relationships. so in the evening when we sit in silence staring at the telly and i glance over and feel extremely disappointed in my choice of man i remind myself that i have two beautiful girls out of it, and that financially times are a bit tough at the moment, but if we spilt then we would probably not be able to clothe the kids. Also if I leave him I wold not have another man in my life anyway so may aswell co habit with this one.

and while there are various shades of grey in this topic, my children will be far happier than the children of a mum who moves from man to man in th pursuit of happiness

Doubletroublemummy2 - your post is very sad. You think you have the choice of your DH or going from man to man? And that you might as well stay with him because at least then you have a man? Why not just be single? Why do you need to have a man in your life at all?

I think if people really believe that most children grow up in loving families where mommy and daddy are true loves dream, then they are misguided

I think this thread is proof that people don't think that at all.

and while there are various shades of grey in this topic, my children will be far happier than the children of a mum who moves from man to man in the pursuit of happiness

There is a middle ground, not every woman that leave a shite relationship goes on to move from man to man. you acknowledge there are shades of grey, but you seem to think that as there are worse bad things, it makes your own bad thing acceptable.

I despair at all these children growing up with such crappy examples of relationships.

have to go to work soon, but:

Amber: I do not believe for one minute your DH would get residency of your DD under the circumstances

But if I posted DH's POV (what he would tell a judge) "I was a successful working man when DW got pregnant against my wishes. I gave up work so that I could be a SAHD. I gave up the opportunity for a future career to support DW in hers. I have been at home all the time with DD since she was born, taking full care of her and attending all her needs. She is now at school. I do all the pick-ups drop offs and attend all the school functions. DW is rarely at the school. I do all the cooking and cleaning. I have a couple of beers in the evening. Suddenly DW wants to divorce and expects me to give up my child"

The truth is that we had a contraceptive failure and I refused to aboort. He left work before was pushed. He was offered more work but didn't actually want it, and used DD as an excuse not to take it. I've always done the majority of the care for DD including all the nights even though I was at work and he wasnt. He runs the hoover over the front room, never cleans anything else in the house. He warms up food I have cooked on Mondays, opens a jar on Tuesdays, buys pizza on Wednesdays and I do the rest of the cooking. He has at least 6 beers between 5-7 every night and more on the weekends.

But how do I prove that?

What if I am right? Imagine I am. Imagine for a second that the Judge is taken in by him.

DD then spends Mon-Fri with a man that will happily live in a dirty house. Will eat junk food or not at all. Will not wash clothes, clean kitchen, scrub toilets. Is drunk every evening, so no more activities or god forbid ability in emergencies (he once slept right thorough a fire alarm, didn't hear it at all). Will slag her mother off at every available opportunity. She will visit her mother in some shithole at the weekends because that will be all I could afford and I will resent paying him to keep her when I know that he isn't. Oh and she wont see her sister as much unless I take them both - and I doubt I will be allowed to.

Tell me how that is better than what she has now? Honestly, truthfully, do you really think that is better?

Midnight: You know, sitting up chatting until gone midnight, putting the world to rights. Flopping on the sofa, with DH's legs over you, watching TV. Grabbing each other when a song comes on the radio and samba-ing badly around the kitchen. Taking the piss out of each other. Having private jokes. Raucous, shared laughter. Exchanging glances which convey full conversations without a word having to be said All of that happens. The only thing that doesn't is the bedroom thing, because he sleeps most nights in the Study. DD accepts that because his snoring is legendary - to the point of separate bedrooms on holiday.

LaQueen: In what fucked up reality, is it somehow better and more noble to raise a child in a house, with parents who can't bear each other, and where the DH is a violent alcoholic? DH was violent 4 years ago, DD did not see it and he hasn't been violent since. She's not in a house with parents that can't bear each other - DH is very happy, I pretend to be happy. See my post above about the life she could have.