To wonder what reasons people give for being willing to accept an organ but not donate

[crashdoll]

What the title says really.

I am happy for all my organs to be donated when I'm gone. I'd also accept an organ transplant if I was in that position. I know there are religious reaons for not donating certain organs but I do wonder how people can rationalise not donating organs if they are willing to accept.

I am worried they will not try to save my life enough.

As one of the few people on this thread that have said they don't want to donate organs after death, this is not a concern I share. I do believe that doctors will always try to save a life, even where there is a possibility that that person could go on to be a donor.

Even with living kidney donation, the donor and the recipient are treated by two entirely different, separate teams of doctors, surgeons, and whoever else they need to ensure that each patient is at the forefront of their own doctors minds.

Milbracat's DH said this
"I asked DH as to why he's not on the register and he says that if you're in Intensive Care and the doctors know that the second you are declared dead your body is going to be "broken up for spares" then they are not going to try TOO hard to keep you alive. He also objects to the twee and flippant wording on the donor cards themselves - all this "I would like to help someone to live after my death". Given what they are doing, he would rather see something like "I, authorise medically qualified personnel take the specified organs from my brain dead body for the purposes of transplantation to another individual". He is also against the idea of presumed consent as his organs are "his to give and not the State's to take". "

And that is my where I stand too. Milbracat's DH's preferred wording is semantically sound enough that I would probably be able to sign that.

I don't think I could sign up my children for a scheme as it stands now, with this thought in my head, and I believe I have issues with "beating heart" donations, related to the above. It's such a vsiceral reaction, and I'm not sure I can get past it however I try.

I believe that if I was actually there, and knew for certain there was no hope, the idea of organ donation, to help someone else when there was no hope for me and mine would be at least a shred of comfort, but I feel very, very uncomfortable with the way the register exists at the moment.

I have no issue with the idea of my organs going to help someone else, and have told OH that he must tell someone this if the issue were ever tragically to arise.

No, not your selfishness, FairPhyllis.

That was addressed to the secret army of freeloaders insisting they are wonderful and nobody should think badly of them for taking what they think too highly of themselves to give.

Just found I would be able to donate corneas so will definitely sign up online.

"And you think that coercion - in the form of 'you can't receive unless you are on the list for donation' - is the way to get proper consent?"

That's not what I suggested.

A refusal of treatment is not ethical, or necessary.

In a situation where there were enough organs for all the people who needed them, all would get treated, regardless of freeloader status.

But where there is a scarcity of organs, in part because of freeloading, it seems reasonable and fair that people who have opted in to the organ donation programme should be given a priority.

Thinking of it as a co-operative system seems to me like it could be made to work ethically.

There's no coercion for anyone to take part. If they don't like organ donation, they are free to keep their dead organs to themselves.

But they should not then also be allowed to take up priority spaces on queues of people needing organs, when some of those people will die because they don't receive one.

I don't have children, so I don't know if I'd be able to donate their organs, or the organs of anyone I love. While I could donate for myself, I don't actually know if I would be emotionally capable of doing it for someone else until it came to the crunch. Which I suspect would be true for many of us, and nobody should be vilified if, in that moment of grief, it is too big an ask for them.

I too am on the register but ^ I completely agree with.

I really hope that I would have the strength to donate parts of my husband or child. I imagine that if people are on the register, a decision made when not grief stricken, would make it easier to make that decision when it is important when devestated by the loss of your loved one. Knowing it is what the person wanted or what we had decided for our child in advance, would make it an easier thing to do at the crucial time. I hope so anyway.

athing I want to point something out to you.

When having a debate two groups form, those like myself who are against donation and those who are for it such as yourself and maryz seeker etc. I put across my point of view you put across your etc and try to persuade the other party to see your point as the more valid.

However you automatically lose the argument because the minute you started calling people scum I stopped being interested in anything you had to say so how would you be able to change my mind? It's a good job there are other more rational posters fighting your cause that's all I can say!

To put it another way you catch more flies with honey. You have been vile to posters on this thread such as tantrums who actually agrees with you!! The feelings of her dp are totally separate to those of her own which is a point you seem to have missed spectacularly.

If you go through life treating everyone who has a differing opinion to yours as scum I suspect you will end up very lonely indeed!

Right update. Me and dp did speak about this last night as ds didn't bloody go to sleep until 3.25am! [knackered]

Neither of us have been in this position obviously however gave the closest example he could to explain his feelings do bear with me. Ds was premature born by emcs. He was classed as a still born ( thankfully they revive him ) dp says when he saw them trying to resuscitate him it was the most heartbreaking awful feeling in the world ad his most predominate thought at this point was how he wa going to be able to walk back into theatre and look me in the face - I was oblivious to any of this. He say had a dr asked him in that moment about donation his gut automatic response would have been to say no.

However he has said now that he is not bothered about his organs and he would want it to be my choice at the time. I have said the same to him. We are not going to actively sign up for donation but we will no longer declare no straight away it will depend entirely on our emotional strength at the time.

However we both feel that we would most probably not agree to the dc being donators for the reasons I stated earlier.

You may disagree but I feel this is at least a start.

Sory for typos half asleep and on phone

I have no interest in changing your mind.

A person capable of such monumental selfishness is only of interest to me in terms of figuring out how to make sure they can't continue to game the system.

Keep your lousy organs if they mean that much to you.

I'm not on the register because of a disturbing film I saw when I was younger. Something about them convincing the persons family they were dead and to donate when they weren't really. Anyway it's haunted me
But
I have told my family I wish to be a doner. I am also on the marrow register and give blood every time they're in town

The bit that I struggle with so I guess I need to do more research (and try not to think of the film) is with my children. (Please correct me if I'm wrong as it would help) For them to donate they would need to be on life support? I would struggle sending them in for an operation to remove parts of their body when technically they're not completely dead.
On the other hand I would like to think I could stop other parents going through the anguish I would be suffering

I have re-thought too. I need to lose my eye obsession, I will not be here. I will tick that box too. That's great Fairy.

athing if you have interest in changing people's mindsthoughts why on earth are you taking part in a debate?? Or have I totally missed the point about what a debate is for

maryz I think that was dp's thought on seeing ds a tiny small bundle and how could he willing send him to be operated on and without even having chance to speak with me. Luckily tho in our case it all worked out fine! ( although they seem to to have broken his "off" switch )

Wow FairyJen, from your very staunch position previously, even a discussion about it is a big step.

It must be a very difficult thought process, especially if you don't know anyone on the list as there is not the same level of understanding as to what life on the transplant list is like.

Hats off to you, clearly you've taken some of the nicer points on board which has lead to your discussion, even if it ultimately doesn't change your mind.

clouds living donors don't have separate surgical teams or consultants. Mine and DH's were the same. I trusted our consultant with my life and we had separate consultations but the teams weren't different. It may be a different policy under a different healthcare authority though. I had to be consulted with away from DH to ensure there was no coercion, and had to discuss with them whether DH would be told before his surgery, if I had died in mine. I specifically requested that they not tell DH should something go wrong, as I knew that DH wouldn't have gone ahead.

Whilst I am completely for an opt out system, I understand why people wouldn't agree with it as a policy decision -even though I strongly disagree with the thought process that the Government would have autonomy over people's bodies. That isn't the way it works in countries with presumed consent - and I doubt it would be the same if it did come into force here.

Also I don't care who my organs go to. I didn't sign up so that I could hold the moral high ground - I signed up because I believe in the system of organ donation.

I have grown up.

Yesterday I was of the naive belief that organ donation was not something people would knowingly and deliberately abuse.

Now I know better.

It has fundamentally changed the way I see the system.

I had never thought of it as exploitative. But now I see that it can be, and frequently is.

I don't understand accepting donors but not donating yourself. I'm sure people have their reasons but I think unless you've ever been affected by it in any way you can't really understand how important it is to donate. I used to give blood til they took me off the list as I kept passing out.....going to try again tho cos that was yrs ago. I'm also on the bone marrow donor list and will donate any of my body parts after I've died. I would also donate my dc organs too, even tho it makes me feel sick just typing it! I just think if an organ has the potential to save my dc lives at some point in their lives how could I not?

reindeer as I said its still more discussion with a view that the decision will be made at the time.

It's hard to discuss not least because, fortunately I never even come close to a situation where donation might be requested. I read posts like expats and of course it is heartbreaking however I know that this is nothing compared to how she felt at all ad it's this leel of grief that I do t think you can realistically imagine iyswim in order to be able to make an informed decision. I have said if it is me dp can decide what he wants to happen and vice versa with the dc we are at the moment still saying no however when confronted with this in reality we may feel differently as some of you may do likewise. It is easy to give a yes or no answer but living it out is completely different.

What prompted the discussion was me mouthing off about a certain poster which of course sounded like the rantings of a loon to dp until I showed him the thread!

I am unsure about Dc eyes. I have to admit I have a fear like Toms but being buried alive, I realise this is very unlikely and put it down to watching some weird movie when younger! I also didn't want to cremated as again, I am in a box and could be alive. I realise this would most likely never happen.

My dear relative who passed away, even though she donated her organs, my brother still wanted her to have her socks on as she detested having cold feet, so he put them on for her.

Oh off I go bubbling again! After reading Expats post I would like to think she is still with us somewhere in soul.

My heart goes out to those who have DC on the waiting list or who have had to make this decision.

we all have to get over the idea that if you are on life support we are still alive. Because we aren't. We are dead, but the machine is pretending we are alive, if that makes sense

This is exactly it for me. In the same way that you are struggling to get your head round my feelings, I struggle to get my head round this.

If there was some way that they could still use organs after a person having the same death, in the same surroundings with the same people present, then I'd be much more comfortable with the idea. I'd probably say I'd go for it if I was asked about donating my DHs organs, as long as I could be there at the time his body, as well as his soul died, and have whatever time I felt I needed after the switch off before things were taken.

Because to me, I love my DHs body as well as his personality, or soul, or whatever you want to call it, so what happens to his body matters to me. It doesn't become nothing to me just because its not going to sustain his life anymore.

athing is it worth pointing out that I haven't "exploited" the system at all? No one I know has a donor organ so haven't take anything you think we shouldn't have...

Everything I have said is technically hypothetical as I am not and have not been in that position.

I have given blood in the past and would do it again if that makes the slightest difference to you probably wont tho

Fairy even so it is a great big step forward. It isn't a nice thing to talk about! So I appreciate why, especially if you don't have a connection with someone on the transplant list, it would be particularly difficult.

The irony is that DH, who has had a transplant, and obviously knows DS will need one, was really unsure about putting DD on the list. He felt it was 'tempting fate'. But we had several chats about it and his opinion didn't change but he realised that if he was asked then he probably would have donated her organs should anything happen. It was difficult for him to get his head around, despite having needed a transplant. He can donate some of his organs now, as his body has adequately recovered but he struggled with getting DD signed up.

clucky a new business? How fabulous. Please PM me to let me know how you get on, and whether you decide to go ahead and have another baby x