To wonder what reasons people give for being willing to accept an organ but not donate

[crashdoll]

What the title says really.

I am happy for all my organs to be donated when I'm gone. I'd also accept an organ transplant if I was in that position. I know there are religious reaons for not donating certain organs but I do wonder how people can rationalise not donating organs if they are willing to accept.

That was very prophetic .

Sounds like he lived his short life to the max .

greengoose, can't imagine your loss x

Shabba and Greengoose you both made me cry x

Greengoose very sad to hear about your DD xxx

Thanks ladies, she was a poppet, but very very ill. We miss her.

I still can't persuade some relatives to sign up, I think it's one of these issues that people have a reaction to that isn't always arguable, and because we don't talk about death in this country, we don't openly discuss this really either.
My two older boys are aware of what they think re organ donation, but I think their sister influenced them, on this as in so many things! As Shabba's son said, life is just short, but even little lives cause massive good sometimes!

"I would never judge anyone saying no in that situation"

Me neither.

But someone who can sit in full health and think about this issue dispassionately and decide that they will not donate but happily cause other people to die so they can take an organ are psychopathic in their selfishness.

I have been trying to figure out why my reaction to this has been so extreme. I feel physical revulsion at the idea that there are many people out there that think that way and believe it is acceptable.

That even consider themselves to be moral people as they make a choice that shows they believe other people's lives to be of very little importance.

So unimportant that squeamishness basically justifies allowing them to die for lack of something you think you should have if you needed it.

People have been saying that unless you've known someone on the list, you don't understand. And I thought (and still think to a certain extent) that there has to be an incredible failure of imagination and compassion not to get it on any level at all.

But I remember now when my friend and mentor was on the heart transplant lists. And how horrific it is to know someone you care about is going to die unless someone else loses their life prematurely, in a horrible way.

And then he got a heart. And we knew that other people, just as desperate, had not received it so he could have it. Their chances of dying increased so he could live.

But he didn't live :(

The transplant wasn't successsful. And that most precious thing he had been given, that heart that could have saved a life, that almost saved a life, died too.

And the thought of that waste, that he died anyway and someone else could have been saved with that heart, was terrible.

When you agree to go on the transplant list, you know that you might be given an organ that could have saved someone else. And they might die so you can live.

To be prepared to put yourself on that list, in the cold light of day, knowing that you would never have been prepared to donate an organ had things been different, is so profoundly immoral I can't understand how a person could live with themselves if they thought that way.

As I said earlier, it's the basic evil of humanity that people will exploit each other in that way.

"he says that if people are willing to donate, that's their choice."

Loathsome.

My uncle had a kidney transplant a few years ago. He is still ill, but he can actually leave the house now.

AThing - but they aren't "causing someone to die". The person is medically, if not legally, already dead. The most you can say is that they are benefitting from an unknown stranger's death.

Re-read. I get what you mean - like applying for a council house and therefore potentially making someone else homeless?

I don't give blood (they wouldn't have me any more) but I'd gladly take blood products. I have very little sympathy for those who are "just" squeamish or apathetic about donation, but I don't consider it a "loathsome" position.

When I die, I'm gone. Anything that can be used should be used - and my family know my views on this. I don't think that (given my age and past lifestyle) anything I have will be of value - but if they want it, they can have it.

Not to nag, but to encourage everyone here who is pro donation to make sure their details are up to date on the organ donar registrar... It only takes a minute.

It's a bit like the council house analogy, but the fact that it is life and death makes it a different moral decision.

Deciding to go on the transplant list is a moral decision.

You know that there are fewer organs than people that need them.

You know that people die on the list because no organ comes on time.

People decide not to go on the list because they don't want to take an organ in old age that could save a young person, for example.

Of course, everyone has the moral right to make the decision to be on that list if they need an organ, even if their success ultimately means another person does not get an organ they need.

But if you won't donate, not because of a failure to consider the matter, or because grief makes it too hard.

But if you won't donate because it doesn't appeal to you and you don't see why you should, then you lose the moral right to put yourself in competition for scarce organs against people who would give what they are hoping to receive.

The scarcity exists, in part, because of the selfish attitude you hold. To make the scarcity worse by joining the group of people hoping to benefit, many of whom will die, is an appalling form of exploitation.

It is a decision that other people might well die because of your selfishness.

How anyone can think that is OK is beyond me.

I see what you're getting at, but given that the overwhelming majority of organs are unusable on death anyway, the chances of your dying suitably are vanishingly small.

In my head that's an argument for being on the register, but it could also support not doing so.

It doesn't matter what your chances are of donating or receiving.

What matters is that when you don't know what will happen, you choose that you will exploit the generosity of others, thereby increasing the risk of death for other people, but you will not reciprocate.

"will" doesn't come into it. "would consider" is the closest most of us ever get, thank God.

If a higher proportion needed or could give organs - say we worked out how to harvest safely up to twelve hours post mortem - then it would become a real question. But for most people it is highly theoretical so they don't give it in-depth thought. I might roll my eyes at them but I don't hate them.

Athing, I'm not badgering my DP into signing up, or telling him he's "loathsome", it's his choice, as it's everyone's choice. He feels the way he does, he said he might change his mind in time and I think he will to, I'll be gracious enough to let him make a personal decision all by himself so that if/when he changes his mind it's his decision.

FWIW, we spoke to my mum about it too, who is co Intensive Care nurse of 40 years experience. She said she would really struggle to agree to donate any of our organs because she's seen the way it's done and described it as a "smash and grab" where there is no dignity given to the doner

She's noted my wishes though.

My DM did say she'd happily donate her own, just that she'd struggle with her kids' organs.

Something, I honestly don't care if no dignity is afforded to my body after I'm dead! I'm dead, I won't know!

If that mad scramble for organs is because every minute counts then they can do what they like - I'd hate to think my organs were wasted because they were trying to be gentle with my dead body!

As I said before I've no problem with your dp's position as long as he refuses to accept a donated organ if needed - otherwise he's an arse of the highest order.

As much as it would break my heart for my DC or DP to be 'incomplete' if God forbid the worst were to happen, it would break my heart even more to know that someone had died unnecessarily because of that fact...

I just hope they bring in an 'opt out' system soon... And those who 'opt out' (not for medical reasons of course) are also not allowed to receive.

There are people on this thread and married to people on this thread who have considered the matter and have decided they are too good to donate but are deserving of other people's organs.

It's fucking terrifying to know that people such as that live amongst us.

Hate is too good for them.

athing get a grip now. I've really tried I give honest an dignified answers to people on this thread however you are makin out like non donors are serial killers or something. Frankly it bothers me more that there are such judgemental arses as you in the world!

I now have a very firm grip on the extent to which humans are prepared to exploit others for their own gain.

How I had failed to see that it extended to matters of life and death, of taking life and offering death, is beyond me.

I will not forget this wake-up call in a hurry.

Judging the immoral as immoral is reasonable.

Equating it to unjustifiable, unashamed immorality is nonsense.

And just to be clear, the problem is only with those who have a stated, considered policy of not donating but being prepared to take organs from those who are.

Non-donors who are not the worst kind of self-serving hypocrite I disagree with but am not disgusted by.

athing I say get a grip as like I said before there are people on this thread who have managed I put across their feelings and arguments without resorting to nasty contemptuous and goady name calling comments like you have.

Have some dignity. This is supposed to be and intelligent, adult debate there is no need at all to resort to nasty comments the way you have even if you don't agree with what another poster is saying

domestic I do absolutely see your point about the timing being crucial etc however though you may not care about your dignity after death your loved ones may.

I think andro has given a perfect example of the damage that can be done by doctors being seen as grabby and uncaring.