To expect mums to get their children vaccinated?

[againagain]

Met two mums at play group today who said they didn't/weren't. Their reasons were autism, all that stuff on the Internet, drugs companies making money and keeping their children 'clean'. WTF?? Am I right in thinking their kids are safe though because 'the herd' is immunised? I just think there's a certain mother type who thinks anything 'non-natural' or scientific is wrong. Rant over

But what if the child has a contraindication against the jab? Are you going to ban them from going to school?!

I think talking about whether it is better to have an autistic child or a dead child was a particular low on a thread that has few high points and what prompted the post asking if people actually realised how significant a condition autism is.

Although I particularly enjoy the idea that a bunch of mothers think denying a child schooling because of a decision their parent made is a good way to go.

Some people are arses. Some people have incredibly difficult circumstances and genuine concerns around vaccination.
It's a bit grim that so few want to see the difference.

The idea that a parent who has genuine, sincerely felt concerns about vaccination should be harangued and their child denied schooling is pretty shocking to me and that people cheerfully compete to be more aggresive about that is shocking to me too.

It's almost as if actually getting the vaccination rate up, isn't nearly as important as throwing shit at other parents.

Still a good dose of sanctemonious hectoring is probably making a few on here feel bloody marvellous.

It's never been clear to me why people who decide against the MMR because it 'causes autism' go for the single jabs, when they are exactly the same thing. If the MMR causes autism, then why wouldn't M, M and R cause it? The whole 'overloading the body with too many vaccines' argument doesn't wash because other vaccines in the schedule contain more vaccines than the MMR. (I know there are some hardcore antivaxxers who don't give any, but many only seem to take against the MMR).

Bill Gates could do far far more for people living in certain parts of Africa. Running water and decent sanitation would dramatically reduce diarrhea which causes more deaths than polio and measles.

Please don't condemn the parents of non vaccinated children as lazy or ignorant. Ds was born at the height of the MMR scare.he was not a healthy baby, prone to allergies and eczema and then behavioural problems as he got older, leading to tests and suggestions that he was " on the spectrum" We agonised long and hard over whether to inject him with a substance that was raising concerns in the media. I have a friend whose mother took the supposedly safe drug thalidomide in the early 60s....
So DS is still not vaccinated and now we are discussing it again as puberty and secondary school approaches. It is a hard and horrible decision and not one we will take lightly either way.

no flaming from me havingastress My brother reacted very badly to the single measles jab, immediately after recieving it. Another friends son had the MMR and a minute later had a massive fit which has left him permently brain damaged. Don't get me wrong I'm sure 99.9 % of children who recieve the MMR are and will be fine, but all vaccinations carry a risk. You can hardy blame parents who have witnessed the negative side effects of vaccinations first hand overly cautious. The arguement that unvaccinated children shouldn't be in school is shocking, we have the freedom to chose in this country.

Pag, I think you're marvellous, and I am yet again astounded by how calm and civilised you can be on these threads.

I haven't given my children the MMR. I'll attempt to explain why but I would appreciate not being flamed. I have a nephew with severe autism, I see the quality of life my sister in law has looking after her son who we all love dearly, I see the way he seems quite literally terrified by life at times, and the very difficult times they have ahead if them as he grows older, larger and stronger. I have the utmost respect for my sister in law but she is ground down by life and the way having an autistic son makes even the simplest task exhausting. It frightens me. My nephew has seizures, he had his first seizure the day of the MMR, it could quite possibly be coincidental, I don't rule that out, or maybe, just maybe there is something in his genetic makeup that reacted to that vaccine and started him on this path, until this point he had met his milestones and appeared neurologically typical.

I'm convinced the MMR is safe for the vast majority of the population and I appreciate that measles can have a devastating effect but that fear of something happening to my child because I gave them a vaccine is almost paralysing, in the way that something happening to my child because I didn't vaccinate isn't. I can't explain it any other way than that. It's not totally beyond the reaches of possibility that although the MMR may be safe for most, there may be a few genetic 'mutations' for want of a better word that it might interact poorly with and given my family history I think my reticence is understandable.

DD is almost 10 now and I have talked the MMR over with her and she knows that now she is older I would like her to have it as I feel that her body would be more able to cope with it now as opposed to when she was just one, however she faints at the sight of a needle so it's a work in progress. But that fear still cripples me.

I think the reason people are more concerned about the mmr is that they are live vaccines, which is why it cannot be given before age 1.

I do wonder if by 'research' everyone just means 'google'. Or have these non vaccinating parents read full scientific research papers and journals and compared the evidence for an against? I appreciate if people vaccinate one dc who then reacts badly so u don't future dc, but op I totally get the 'type' of parent ur talking about!

Well, like I said, I'm not saying I'm not going to vaccinate. Just not 100% sure I will give the measles one. Yes to Rubella, and if mumps were available, yes.

I agree with you fairy, i'm sure most kids are fine. But having seen first hand what the measles jab can do, really don't want to risk it. I'd like to weigh up the pros and cons for myself.

It's not a decision I will take lightly. Especially not after how badly poor DD reacted to her 12 weeks jabs. It's taken her 3 weeks to get over them, and she's just the next lot just next week. Such a large amount of toxics going into such a small body.

I might consider the MMR when she is much older. Hmm.

pagwatch A voice of reason thank you.

Everyone is entitled to their choice but there are wide ranging issues. I teach in a secondary school where annually we get outbreaks of mumps due to pupils not having jabs when younger. Instantly notices are put up in the staff room warning any pregnant women. This occurred when I was seven weeks pregnant and as I was already at risk of suffering a miscarriage was practically told by the school nurse to leave the premises instantly

is this section of mumsnet watched by a certain sector of society or something? because it seems sooo different to other areas
empathy
open mindedness
non judgemental
caring
apathy
etc is all left at the door of AIBU

holiday Can i ask? Did you get a lot of pressure from the GP's to get your children vaccinated with the MMR? How did you deal with that?

charliesmumma there's google, and there's google scholar which will link you only to evidence based research.

OK. Owllady, when your doctor says that your child has an ear infection - do you do your own independent research?

I am that someone has decided to criticise Bill Gates for attempting to eradicate polio.

I am pretty impressed with Bill Gates.

Babies are exposed to thousands or bacteria and germs the second they are born. Their immune systems are not 'overloaded' by a vaccine of one or two or three viruses. The link to MMR and autism was disproved years and years ago and the dr totally discredited. The affect of singular vaccines had never been tested and the side effects are unknown. MMR has been tested and is approved. I just don't get it.

having we got a lot of pressure from hvs. We were told we were irresponsible, didn't understand and were given a propaganda leaflet listing all the pros but none of the cons. It just pissed us off and made us more determined not to do it.

Yeah true - but how many people actually use google scholar? The 'research' also needs to be unbiased and I'm sure a lot of people look for what's going to back up their preferred ideology, so they can then site it to other people. Maybe some people do research both sides equally and still come up with 'autism caused by MMR, vaccines will over load the immune system' etc etc but I really wonder what they are reading or when/where its been published.

"But what if the child has a contraindication against the jab? Are you going to ban them from going to school?! "

No. However I want such children protected by the herd immunity. A child with a suppressed immune system (prehaps recovering from cancer) can't have vaccines and is more likely to die if they catch measles.

There is a difference between someone with serious medical reason backed up by consultants and some who has read some "woo" on the internet by Andrew Wakefield.

"have you ever lived with a child with severe or profound autism?

without anyone there to care it is a death sentence"

There are degrees of autism. I worked in a special school for 4 years and certainly there were some very violent and challenging children. While I was there a girl with profound autism who died of something completely unrelated to her autism. Everyone who knew her was deeply affected by her death. I cannot imagine the pain that the poor mother must still be feeling. I am sure she wishes her little girl was still alive.

There are lots of ways that children can develop profound special needs. Vacinations have cut the number of children with severe disablities.

flump I see your point, but even having the mmr doesn't 100% guarantee a child won't catch it and put you at risk.
You can be at risk sitting on the bus or out in the shopping centre.
Plus I work in a hospital and potentially could be exposed to all sorts of infectious diseases so the fact your school advertises an outbreak and advises anyone pregnant not to be there is sensible.

charliesmumma yes who knows! I suppose even with evidence based research people can cherry pick which info they want.
Also, it could be biased research as quite often it the major drug companies who are promoting a certain drug or vaccine are the ones financing the research.

vacinations have cut the number of children with severe disablities (sic)

have you got any actual proof to back that up? and what kind of disabilities we are talking about? It also does not disregard the link between disabilities occurring after vaccinations anyway