to wonder WTF would it take for people stop eating "meat"

[ElenorRigby]

Just that really!

Maryz Im the only veggie that I know of in my Irish family.
If you really want to learn a new skill you will, I did.

maryz ABSOLUTELY! I totally agree! I am very passionate about cooking, and am loving the challenge of creating tasty meals without meat and dairy.
We really should be teaching our children the cooking skills that we have lost over the last couple of generations.
Aside from any moral reasons, a vegetarian diet is so much healthier! It is very easy to make a tasty meal out of meat, carbohydrates and minimal veg, but when meat is cut out, there needs to be more effort in providing taste and with this, meals automatically increase tenfold in health and nutrition!

the original If you weren't making any money, you wouldn't have any cattle!
I appreciate that profit doesn't always override welfare, but essentially profit is the first and foremost reason for breeding those cattle!

HullyGully - how exactly would sheep know where they are going? Can they read or understand human speech (to the extent of knowing "slaughterhouse")?

Animals are much cleverer than we think, research continually proves it, they just can't speak, communication is totally different

That I do agree with hully - I'm a big supporter of Monty Roberts methods, which are based on non violent ethical partnerships with horses, and we use them day to day in our handling of all the animals we have (not just horses). But that doesn't mean they know they're going for slaughter - how could they? How would they ever of heard of a slaughterhouse, even f they knew what the word meant?

they know they are going somewhere BAD that no sheep ever return from.

There's blood in those lorries?
I'm pretty sure the sheep don't look at the lorry and think "oh no, thats where elliott went last week, and he never came back, by the looks of it thats no cruise ship - he must have been taken to be killed! Oh no!"

"I don't want to be a pie, I don't like gravy!"

Have a look at them Seventh. Just have a look.

They smell the blood at the slaughterhouse.

Hully I agree that animals taken to slaughter must be able to smell the blood of those that went before them

Tofu's, great Mary. You could build up to it gradual. Start you off with a nice dal.

^the original If you weren't making any money, you wouldn't have any cattle!
I appreciate that profit doesn't always override welfare, but essentially profit is the first and foremost reason for breeding those cattle!^

Not quite what you said first time round though, was it? The original implication was that farmers treat their animals ethically so long they're profitable - which conversely means they abuse them when they lose money!

The margins we make on the cattle aren't ones that any other industry would think decent - the return on capital is laughable. If we ran our business purely on profit terms, the livestock would go (as most have where we are) and everything would be crops - but we happen to value having them. They are bloody hard work, but interacting with livestock daily brings enrichment to our lives - it's hard to understand if you're not a farmer, but that's how we feel.

There is no blood in the lorries - the sheep aren't killed in the livestock transporter FGS, plus they are legally required as part of biosecurity measures to pressure wash and disinfect between loads.

theseventh Not very long ago we would have been on exactly the same page!
I preferred to reduce my meat consumption, in order to use my budget to buy locally reared meat from my butcher.
However lately, I have looked into the whole industry and am so disgusted by the things that are happening that I feel I now want to not be a part of it at all! It is the strongest protest I can make with regards to the worst practices in the industry. But as I say, I respect people who vote with their money for better welfare.

It's the people who don't give it a second thought, and don't even associate their meat with once living animals.

I also think the people who are disgusted at eating horse meat (but happy to eat beef!)are very hypocritical! Fair enough if they are angry at being misinformed, but thinking that it's somehow less ethical to eat one animal than another is ridiculous!

I would like to eat less meat, I prefer veggie curry.

Ill have a look at some of those, ta.

theoriginal I do believe that there are many instances where profit will override welfare in many decisions!
Farmers are increasingly struggling and I'm not saying all of them but yes, I do believe that profit will often take priority.

On every other thread I have read/posted on, the people at the sharp end of whatever it is we are discussing are generally deferred to as speaking with some level of authority. The disabled folk on matters that concern them, nurses/docs/midwives on medical matters, teachers on educational threads etc. etc. so how come TheOriginalLady is being given such a rough ride. She's the one who lives it.
The veggies opinion of us carnivores is neither here nor there, but to dismiss TOL'S frank and thoughtful insights into a working farm is arrogance, and would not be tolerated on any other thread.

LadyFT would you tell be able to tell me, how you can really care for animals with such diligence and then kill them.

One of the reason's I stopped eating meat 27 years ago was seeing a man raise a piglet, give it a name, fatten up to pig and slaughter and then eat the pig!

It still turns my stomach just thinking about it.

When you say you've "looked into it" liza80 - what does that mean?

Have you travelled round the country visiting farms? Talked to farmers about what they do? Because there are many, many farms around the country who are happy for people to see what they do - they're not show farms, they're ordinary working units.

Because when people like you make false assertions about how farmers are mistreating animals in the name of profit, I suspect a lot of the time that "research" is actually bilge from organisations like CIWF, or perhaps you just guess/make it up (as in army's false assertion that most of the meat in this country comes from animals which have been artificially inseminated)

Again, there are some bad apples - but the vast majority are not. Why not go and see for yourself?

theoriginal Although I grew up in rural areas, I am far from an expert on farming. I appreciate you are and I believe you when you say that you look after your animals. This article reiterates the point I am making and from somebody who is an expert in the farming industry!

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1300764/As-vet-I-weep-poor-cash-cows.html#ixzz2KpBJVXmR

LadyFT would you tell be able to tell me, how you can really care for animals with such diligence and then kill them.

Because that is what they are for - they are prey animals and we are predators, if you want to reduce it to basics. And because I know that our animals are treated with respect and care from the moment they are born to the moment they reach the slaughterhouse - I know they have lived a good life in that way.

There are many things which happen in this world which I couldn't stomach doing - I couldn't be a nurse, for example, and watch people die slowly and painfully from cancer and wishing they were dead rather than suffer so - but thank god there are people who can, and do so with care and kindness

Ah the daily fail - the paper which always tells the truth and never puts any spin or varnish on it

Humans are not carnivores! The argument may be whether we are herbivores or omnivores (and we have more in common with the former with regards to digestive system etc) but we are definitely NOT carnivores!

My question was why don't you see for yourself? Growing up in rural areas means nothing - I go to the city in London sometimes but I don't pretend I know how the banking sector operates

"treated with respect and care from the moment they are born to the moment they reach the slaughterhouse "

And what about after that moment?