to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

A lot of children are beautifully behaved at school -because they know the clearly defined rules-and a nightmare at home where the rules can change or be manipulated or are non existent.

I think that you have to remember that they are all different and one size never fits all. There does seem to be a view that there is 'a method' or 'a perfect parent' and if you do x,y and z you turn out a well rounded adult that anyone could be proud of. It ignores the fact that 'perfect' parent for child A can be a nightmare parent for child B.

I try to treat my kids like dogs hoping that a bowl of iams, a bowl of water and a couple of laps of the park will suffice but the buggers want more, more, more! I've even tried tossing them gravy bones as a reward but that doesn't seem to make a difference!

Maryz actually I do UP with dc2 who has high functioning autism. This is THE best way of dealing with him for the simple reasons that
1- he doesn't care about rewards and punishments and have never done so (even when he was 2yo). He would have looked at me and juts carried on whatever he was doing.
2- I can give very clear boundaries wo getting into a will match
3- Emotions, getting angry, 'death stare' have no meaning to him at all. Having a go at him, telling him and sending him in time out for hitting would never have made one bit of difference. Removing from the situation, helping him calm down and then explaining and giving other options on how to deal with x situation IS working.

The 'How to talk' book would probably the 'bible' re children with ASD and.... it fits very well with UP.

Once again, UP does NOT mean no boundaries.

Lots of exercise is the answer to most things-exhaust them physically!

ILs do this with their son, I made mine eat ravioli then he could have yogurt, theirs get to chose, he eats lots of yogurt and not much else! Theirs throws mine off of the trampoline and then cries and they comfort him rather than attend to mine who is lying on the ground screaming that he cannot move his legs. His father goes through elaborate conversations with him about choices he has and the kid just ends up confused.

And you are very lucky if your dcs do not fight when you are not there. Because mine do. Just as much when I am there then when I am not there.

However no one has ever come to see me saying 'Mummy, dc1 has done x...' They have learnt a long time ago that I do NOT react to tell tales.

I think sibling rivalry can also be about clashing personalities: in which case it is just as likely to happen when parents are not present. Some people just aren't a very good fit.

My db and I find it much easier to get on as adults, having had the edge taken off our very different personalities.

Madame that's nothing to do with UP though.
UP or not, the first thing you do is to help an injured person.

However, I know a lot of people who focus first on 'punishing' the one who has done wrong before looking after the injured one. Because in some ways, punishing seems to be the most important bit. Of course, that can happen too with people who think they should explain etc.... but it's certainly not restricted to UP parents.

I think that is UP Maryz. But then I don't think UP is anything special or amazing, I think most people UP most of the time without realising it, because basically, UP is "not behaviourism".

maryz, You didn't do UP unless you do it 100% wrt to other things: no praise allowed. Or rewards, or bribes. No natural consequences, either. UP must shun all that or it's not UP at all (I'm talking in circles, now).

How To Talk is all for praise & natural consequences; it may have other ideas that are compatible with UP, but it is NOT a practical UP manual. (more circles)

UP can't say no natural consequences. The point of a natural consequence is it's something that happens - you can't prevent it! Are you getting confused with logical consequences e.g. you made the mess, you clean it up?

From AK Unconditional Parenting:
On occasion, children will do things that are absolutely unacceptable and we simply must thwart their intentions. [...] the use of outright coercion is a last resort, a strategy to be used reluctantly and rarely
I agree ... that children generally do better when there is a degree of predictability in their lives. But it is easy to overdo this

I agree Maryz

I'll get me coat

I think you're probably right Maryz

Not all sibling rivalry is the same. I didn't react to 'Muuum..........' but it didn't stop them doing it. They are way beyond the age now and they do it as a joke!
I only stepped in if they were really hurting each other.

I never realised I had done BLW 18 years ago, I thought I was "offering a variety of food". And now I realise I was doing some sort of parenting method [baffled]

We all did-then someone wrote a book and invented a 'method'. I thought that the idea was to get them eating the same as the rest of the family and now you have to miss out soup and anything on a spoon! (said by people who fondly imagine you can force feed a baby when they have had enough!)

I bet that if there are 12 people UPing then everyone is different!

Bertie Kohn explicitly says that *allowing negative natural consequences to happen when you can foresee them (even if your child does not appreciate or is stubbornly arguing with you they won't happen) : that that is a form of punishment. Tsk tsk. Whereas Natural consequences that you didn't foresee are just bad luck (i guess). And Natural consequences that your child likes are perfectly fine to endure (I guess).

• Showing your disapproval is another punishment.

• Expressing praise is bad.

• Rewards or bribery are very very bad.

• Saying "I like it!" is bad. Even if that's your honest opinion of something they've done. Too much like evil Praise. Much better to lie and refrain from saying your honest opinions.

So lies are better.

I wonder at what age you can stop UPing and start relating to them like any other loved one?

I think UP should be renamed "Robot Parenting".

*These are items which are at variance from philosophy in How To Talk.

Does anyone remember the anecdote in How To Talk where author confesses she didn't have enough patience one time and just hits her daughter (obtusely refusing to pick a mess up). The author tells the story in a jokey, Well that didn't work! tone. Not full of reprimands, more like saying "We authors are human too."

I can't imagine Kohn confessing he had to slap his kids a few time to figure out it wasn't very effective.

"Kohn explicitly says that *allowing negative natural consequences to happen when you can foresee them (even if your child does not appreciate or is stubbornly arguing with you they won't happen) : that that is a form of punishment."

I think he means here that if a child refuses to wear a coat when it's cold, you should still take the coat with you as just letting the child suffer the natural consequence of getting cold would be cruel if they later changed their mind and acknowledged they were cold after all.

But in my experience most parents would take the coat along. Though more "Conventional Parenting" might insist on it being worn in the first place

Similarly if my child refused their lunch the natural consequence might be that they would be hungry later. I think Kohn would say you should give the child a snack and not refuse it as a punishment.

I agree with this but I do make a point of saying, you're probably hungry because you didn't eat your lunch and don't offer anything too exciting.