to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

"manners and social skills can't be taught can only be learnt. "

I disagree. I think the function of manners and social skills should be taught, until such time as the desire and knowledge of the benefit becomes apparent to the child. My children could sign 'sorry' long before they could say it. Same with 'please' and 'thank you'.

My eldest has SN. I would never have done the 'I'm going' with her. She would wave me off. Similarly any of the above. With her I had to be much more decisive, because any chink in the armour would be exploited to the max.

Car seats with DD1 - put her in. When she bucked (as she always did), I loosened the straps fully, then clipped them together. Then, I waited for 'the moment'. She would eventually have to take a breath. At that point, she couldn't maintain her rigid posture. Gentle push on the tummy while quickly pulling the tensioner - job done. I got that down to about 10 seconds.

Manners are mostly first and foremost about protecting relationships; they aren't actually first and foremost expressions of contrition, selflessness or gratitude. It is unfair to expect young children to understand all that. They have to learn form over substance.

"I would never threaten to leave a young child because that would not be true and I always mean what I say."

I'm comfortable with that, because to DD3, 'leaving' is 'turning on the engine and shutting the door'. Obviously I would leave, but it's enough.

I always follow through, too. As you say, it's about finding what matters. I find with DD1 (SN) remarkably little actually matters when she's 'in the zone'. DD3 seems to have a fixation on sweets - the offer of 'a' sweet can be persuasive at times.

Oh and salesmen. Fabulous tactic I stumbled across:

Answer door, listen to first sentence.
"Are you trying to sell something?"
No, madam. We are...
"Are you asking me to buy something?"
No, madam. We never ask for money at the door, we...
"Will you at any point be asking me to give your company money for a product or service?"
Ahh...welll....
"Yes, I thought so. Unless you are offering me the product completely free of charge I'm not interested. Thank you."

They slope off and tend not to come back.

It's all about vinegar consistent and following through. The 9 year old here knows when I say I'll throw his jumper in the bin if I find it on the floor, knows that I mean it.

The nearly three year old knows that he needs to do as he's told before I count to five.

The worst teachers are those that make threats but do nothing, the kids push the boundaries because that's what they do and they see no consequences,..... Watch the behaviour get worse and worse until they ar unmanageable to that teacher....

I just say "I'm not interested thank you"

"I'm not selling anything"

"I'm not interested thank you"

"I'm here to offer a free sample"

"I'm not interested thank you"

"Would you like to save money?"

"I'm not interested thank you"

Broken record approach. Works a treat.

Apparently sales works on the basis of offering choice.

"Do you like the red or the Pink?"

"Would you like that in medium or large ?"

"Would you like it wrapped"

"Will you be paying by Visa or Mastercard?"

So it would seem that if the marketing peeps are correct, giving a choice still leads to outcomes that are desirable to you.

"DC would you like rice or potatoes with YOUR chicken" means there is no turkey option

"will you be wearing this jumper and that T-shirt ?" usually ensures mine will be wearing both T-shirt and jumper! because it looks like a choice I assume they must think the choice was theirs.

I know a teacher who had a parent phone her up to ask her to tell her 5yr old to go to bed!! (she refused)

The one rule is never make a threat that you can't-or are not willing-to carry through. If you say it then you have to do it.

I'm glad you could read my post with my epic auto correct fails! Vinegar?!

My friend did the classic of 'dont do that or we won't go with Girl to the zoo today', knowing full well we weren't going to cancel the trip? Luckily her DD did what was asked, but if she hadn't, we would have still gone and DD would have thought.... Hmmm, looks like i don't have to do what I am told!

Or even worse when you hear a parent threaten 'If you do that again, that man/woman/shop assistant over there is going to be really cross with you'

This gives me the rage I mean proper seething I hear it all the time the man/policeman/busdriver/ladybusdriver will be cross chuck you off the bus TAKE YOU AWAY of you don't behave. I once tutted on a bus when I heard a woman say the driver will leave you at the bus stop if you don't sit down she threw me a look when she heard the TUT i just looked all cats bum mouthed about it,

I get it at work X behave or mrsjay will be with you, I do say to them please dont use us as a threat,

You long to say to the mother-'no I won't-they are your children-you do it and stop being so wet!'

say what you mean and mean what you say, and all that if you are not going to follow through safe your breath for when you are going to do something

I think that my main objection is that the child is central and you have to bend over backwards putting things in a way that you think is acceptable to them, so that they will comply. The parent becomes adept at reading the child, responding to emotions etc as in 'poor dear, they are overtired -I must make allowances' and it is never 2 way, the child doesn't learn to read the parent-and consequently don't read others outside the home. They don't understand that other adults have different boundaries. There is nothing wrong in the mother being human, having a lack of sleep and being snappish-and saying 'look, I've a thumping headache-I really can't be bothered to spend ages debating on whether you need a coat-just for once-put it on without an argument!'

I find that setting by example is the best way-they do as you do and not as you say. If you treat them with consideration they do the same to you. If you don't yell obscenities at them they don't have a leg to stand on if they try it to you.

It also doesn't do the child any favours to think that life is like that-because it isn't. You can shelter them in HE, but eventually they have to go out in the real world. UP parents have huge angst about schools, wringing their hands because they use rewards. It really doesn't matter! The child adapts easily.
It is the same with Grandma etc-you can't control what they say and do! A child easily copes with the fact that you have to behave differently in different houses.

If you establish that you mean what you say and you will carry it out, when they are very young-then you can relax and not have the problems when they are older.

If you establish that you mean what you say and you will carry it out, when they are very young-then you can relax and not have the problems when they are older.

I have found this to be true mine are older and they know I never dither and if I say something I mean it, negative or positive , so If i said we are going out we go out etc etc