to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

That is what I did with the eye drops, BertieBotts. It was difficult as I was a single parent at the time- I had to pin him down on the floor and get them in. I told the doctor and he gave me cream instead but that was much more difficult. I was never so relieved to get to the end of a treatment!

To answer questions.
get in the car - explain why we need to- if small make a game of it- if nothing worked I would end up saying 'I'm sorry - I know that you don't like it- but we need to do it' and physically get on and fasten them in.
If older I just pointed out that if they couldn't get in because it didn't suit them then it wouldn't suit me to ferry them to football practice, friend's house etc ( that one worked every time) If over 8 you do need to work out if they really need to go, how long you will be and whether they could just stay at home.
Leave the park I would give plenty of warning- it is annoying to just be told if you are having fun- so I would say quarter of an hour before, followed by 5 mins - and then say something like- race you to that tree - and head in the right direction. If the child was small I would simply pick them up if they refused. An older one I would point out that I wouldn't want to take them next time if they were going to spoil it.
take vile medicine - tell them it was necessary to make them better and shove it down- make sure that there was something nice ready- not as a reward but to take the taste away. My eldest couldn't swallow tablets so, on the advice if the doctor, I emptied the contents into a spoon of something like chocolate mousse. The bath was a good place to give it to young children , so that it didn't go everywhere.
do homework - I just said 'fine, leave it BUT you explain to Miss X - I'm not going to say anything - other than you were too lazy' - that worked every time.

• they sighed and got on with it. clean room - they never had food and drink in there anyway so I just shut the door on it- their room- their choice! If they wanted clean clothes they needed to be in the wash basket. Hits other - not up for discussion! Get down to their level- look them right in the eye and use quiet but fierce voice and say 'we do not hit others- it hurts- if you do it again we go home' and carry through. If at home remove. refuses school - has never been a problem. The youngest said it once after a out a week at school but his brother was 10 when he was born and so he had the example of going to school for the whole of his life. I just said 'well you are going if I have to carry you all the way'! He stomped off with us down the road. I would have carried him. You have to know if there was a problem ,so if it was more than that I would investigate. wants to walk in the road non negotiable. 'If you can't walk at the edge you hold my hand' and grip it tightly. won't get dressed - use the positive language- don't use the negative and give the idea they have a choice! e.g. 'When you get dressed we can..........' Can just be simple- something like 'make your jigsaw- make some toast' whatever you think might appeal.

Right tired of this.......how would common sense parenting deal with the child who won't...

Get in the car
Leave the park
Take vile medicine
Do homework
Clean room
Hits others
Refuses school
Wants to walk in the road
Won't get dressed

Using the example of not terribly co-operative almost 4 year old.

(Although it's fair to say that, by age 4 both my children were quite co-operative because they had learned by then that I mean business and they would only be really difficult if tired, hungry or ill).

Get in the car - if you don't get in the car, there will be no (insert activity of choice) when we get home. If still refusing, put child in car and follow through with sanction.

Leave the park - If this is usually a problem, set rules before we go, 'Remember we have to leave when I say'. Give ten minute warning, five minute warning then 'Race you to the gate'. If child resists, take by hand and lead. Ignore any protests.

Take vile medicine - You don't get to do anything else until you have done this. Afterwards you can have a sweetie (or other small treat of choice). But this has to be done. Then ignore protests until ready to take medicine.

Do homework - Set aside time/place for homework. Get into daily routine. Have a snack & rest first, then get on with it. Help if needed. If refusing to do, tell the teacher.

Clean room - star chart . Clothes not washed unless brought down. No food/drink in room if they don't clear up after themselves. If refusing to clean, give choice. Clean or sanction. (For older kids, would not expect 4 year old to clean own room properly).

Hits others - remove from situation every time until they get the message. No hitting.

Refuses school - Non negotiable. You have to go. Either in uniform or pjs, we are leaving in ten minutes.

Wants to walk in the road - Non negotiable. Hold hand. Ignore protests.

Won't get dressed - go out in whatever they're wearing.

I would spend a couple of minutes explaining why they have to do as I say for all these instances but, at the end of the day they have to do it so I would not spend very long over-explaining. Tell them once. Tell them what will happen if they don't. Follow through. Stay calm, be matter of fact.

Lots of praise when they deserve it and lots of love all the time. I tell my dcs there is nothing you could do that would make me not love you. I might not like what you did but I would still love you.

I also tell them that, no matter what situation you get yourself into, I can always help. I might not be able to fix it completely but I can help. They know that they can come to me and I won't shout at them or rant about what they have done.

I want them to grow up responsible and considerate of others and I want them to know that I set these rules and boundaries because I love them and, as a parent, it's my job to teach them

Ha exotic snap!

I have a theory (well I have many about many things, but about UP...). Bear with me.

I have discovered that I am immune to persuasion. Sales people, pushy people, they just annoy me. They never talk me into anything. (whereas DH would sign over his children if I left him alone with a salesman too long).

The flip side is that I have no powers of persuasion. I seem to have missed out on that socialisation Plug-In. I couldn't sell beer to an alcoholic, I am useless at negotiating discounts from used car salesman. I end up with too many ultimatums for DC because I can't persuade them with reason.

I read Kohn and am convinced of little he says. But others find UP a revelation and instantly buy into the whole thing.
I reckon that's because they are sensitive to persuasion but they are good at it, too. So I reckon that a lot of making UP succeed is about having the power to talk your DC into things. You think you have reasoned with them, but really you've just listened and then explained your own perspective in compelling terms. Also, the susceptibility to persuasion is somewhat inherited, so your kids are more likely to be talked into things than mine contrary little gits.

Such is my theory. Any takers?

The death stare/voice is very useful. I can't say that I have had a problem with most of it-e.g. they are very young when they first decide they won't get in a car seat so by the time they are 3/4 they know they are expected to anyway and don't waste time fighting about it.
By the time they are 5/6 I have, just a few times, used my ultimate sanction which is -'right I will read my book and you can tell me when you are ready'. Since they know that I love reading, can block everything out and do it for hours-I never actually had to do it!

8Instead, their behaviour was totally inappropriate - and I had to witness 14 year kids yelling at their Mum 'Fuck you, just fuck you okay' and then throwing their text books across the desk at her...and about 101 other incidents where it was clear the kids had absolutely zero respect for their parents.*

yes these kids are ill prepared for everything and respect nobody 1 has left school but apparently too good to go to college or get a job as and i quote 'not for her' they also curse and swear

I couldn't do the 'well I'm going-goodbye' because when they were about 3yrs and 18months I was getting to the car and they set off running across the grass and I just said it and the 3 yr old came back and the youngest kept going. He then looked around and saw a car like mine driving off. He was distraught and I had to say that whatever he did I would never, ever do that. I felt terrible-I can still see his face now.

I have no Death Stare .

If i sit down to read a book they wander off to discover new says to squabble with each other. Or worse, they all come squabble and wrestle on my lap.

Ds and I are currently in dispute over who gets custody of the Death Stare. (dh, sadly, is not a contender)

I'm not keen on the whole pretending to leave thing either. Firstly because there's no way you'd actually follow through (so what if they call your bluff?) and secondly because it took me so long to get DS OK with the idea of being left, I didn't want to then make it out to be a negative thing! And then also that - that it's such an inbuilt fear for young children, it seems mean to exploit that really.

Interesting persuasion argument. I'm quite persuasive - I get loads of sales at work - but I'm not pushy and I'm not comfortable with the idea of persuading someone into buying something big that they don't need. I've directed someone to cheaper stuff before, by example, and not just because they were deliberating over price.

I am less UP these days. I put DS in his room this morning because he wouldn't stop licking me. I'm trying to teach him that others' bodies are private and he can't just touch people wherever and however he likes - it's hard because he's in an exhibitionist phase and thinks that the idea of someone touching his private body parts is great - er, no. So falling to this now. I had a conversation with DP about it over Christmas and decided that although I'd go with the UP methods first, four is a hard age, and sometimes just placing that physical space is necessary to enforce the boundary. We had a chat about it afterwards and he seemed happy with the rule. Later I gently tapped/touched the end of his nose in a kind of playful/aren't you cute way and he looked all indignant and said "Mummy, we just had a talk on my bed, we don't touch people's bodies unless they say so!" I can guarantee he won't let me forget this rule! I did say sorry.

I am utterly incapable of any kind of death stare or even stern voice, I go from normal to shouting and then to screaming banshee although DS quite often says "You're using your cross voice!" when I'm not shouting but not talking in a normal friendly way either...

Sorry...what is the point of EC? Does teaching them to wee and poo In the toilet so young, create a more advanced poo'er and wee'er for the future......? what a load of pointless nonsense.

It seems that most parents above who seem to follow the "conventional style" are offering choices, being playful, explaining and using a variety of methods that include UP.

And although I practise a lot of UP (and don't use time out or reward charts in particular), I'm not immune to shouting or wrestling a truculent 2 year old into a pushchair.

In matters of safety you often have to use a bit of physical coercion. I'm not going to leave a 2yr old sitting in a poey nappy so I'll try to do it playfully but if not I'm afraid I'll have to chase you around and wrestle you to the ground!

Our worlds really aren't so far apart.

Exactly Zappo :)

Mumble I don't think EC has been mentioned on this thread has it? But anyway I'd prefer to have done EC because I hate changing nappies so much, I'd rather wipe bottoms. Unfortunately DS had other ideas. (He also hated nappy changes, though, so perhaps he would have preferred me to just let him roam free...)

RemembertheGoodTimes Mon 18-Feb-13 11:27:30

A rather silly phrase, perhaps

EC's great! Far fewer nappy changes, especially as they get older. Our son was dry at night from 12 months (we stopped using a back-up nappy at 15 months). In my experience kids love it. And it's not something you have to be 100% committed to all the time - nappy back-ups (washable or disposable) are fine. You can just offer the child at easy times for you, eg on waking. Far easier to wipe bums than change nappies.

Oh and it is a silly phrase - our childminder just laughed and said of course she'd sit my oldest on the potty when he signalled or when she thought he might want to go (we started at 9mo) - it's what she used to do with her babies when at home, to get them used to it.

It doesn't take forever, though, or being invariably late. Obviously if you're going to be late for something important and the refusal is unexpected then at times you might just have to strap them in, although that doesn't work as well when the problem isn't just getting them in but getting them to stay in and not take the belt/straps off!

Okay, perhaps it does take a little longer :)

I disagree by the way that UP is about letting children know that they have options. There were certainly never any options about riding in a car seat or not, and 99% of the time it was never a problem - even when he learned he could reach to undo it himself he was happy to wait until he was told it was ok to undo the seat.

We had a problem quite recently because his grandparents (without my knowledge) had been putting the shoulder strap under his arm instead of over it, I have no idea why, perhaps because they thought he'd be more comfortable like that. So of course he wanted to wear the strap like that and we ended up stopping on the side of a dual carriageway because I wasn't prepared to let him travel like that, but it was never myself or DP who had given him that option. On that occasion I did threaten him with having to go back into the "baby" seat if he couldn't sit in this seat properly, although this was desperation since he's over the weight limit anyway. And then also let him get out of the seat for a minute so that I could adjust the cover which he'd managed to twist off by slouching in it, and so we let him have a little stretch inside the car and a little break for us too, because it was a long journey and he'd been pretty good and non-complaining apart from this car seat issue. I explained where the belt needed to go and that it kept him safe. I don't think he gave a fig about being kept safe in honesty, but he didn't argue about where it was supposed to be again and didn't try to wriggle out or take it off.

Thanks folks, it's interesting to see how the "common sense" approach works.

Get in the car: make it sound interesting or use distraction...talking about the park or what fun we will have doing XYZ, so much the same.

Leave the park: give fair warning, 5,3,1 minute, find a a compelling reason to leave......bake cakes, have tea, see Granny etc N/A now

Do homework: Never been a problem as yet but would do much the same as Exotic/Fairenuff

Clean room: I don't ask often, they are quite tidy and when I do it's so rare they usually just get on with it

Hits others:They didn't for some reason unknown

Wants to walk in the road: Probably never occurred to them, neither have been bolters, we don't do scooters (bloody scooters...) never have, they walk.

The only difference is maybe that A) I rarely ask much of them and when I do it's usually fairly rational and reasonable that even they can see the sense in it B) I don't have time for negotiation or bribes/rewards/shouting/sanctions C) we have few boundaries but those we have never change. D) the expectation has always been the same, work hard, enjoy it and aim to achieve......I have no other expectation, manners and social skills can't be taught can only be learnt.