to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

Very true, exotic, though with the possible exception of teen/preteen boundary testing. Ds is trying it on at the moment, I don't think he really wants to win as such, he just wants to see where the boundaries are. I suppose they do change, with the added independence of an older age, so he feels the need to check them out.

How long did it take you & 3 siblings & your other 2 cousins to forgive your cousin who misbehaved, MaryZ?

Your poor mother, she probably spent hours packing the car & making preparations & then had to turn around again. I'd probably skip any more trips to the beach for a year.

And why is it okay for Maryz & siblings & other cousins to all be punished for the misbehaviour of one? Concurrent thread about why it is wrong to punish whole class for behaviour of one child.

though with the possible exception of teen/preteen boundary testing.

True-they are more likely to question your decisions in the first place.

In the case of them all suffering for one or two-I think this is where you have to be careful in what you threaten. My response would have been to stop the car (as soon as safe to do so) and tell them that I would carry on when they were doing as they were told. I used to keep a book in there for that purpose as in 'I can stay here for ages-let me know when you get fed up and want to continue'.

How did you cope when it was just one of them playing up and the other was in tears because obstructive little sibling was once again preventing making them late for where they wanted to go, exotic?

In my world (4 of us at home) it was rare for all 4 of us to be playing up at once- and one of us (not me!) never played up but had no power to persuade his siblings to behave either.

yeah, but I didn't ask whether you played up. I asked how pissed off you & the others were at the cousin who had acted up. I wondered if you started squabbling, shouting, crying & even physically assaulting that child. Perhaps the penalties for that kind of behaviour would have been even more severe (please elaborate). I am impressed if all 6 of you shrugged it off and never for a moment held the least bit grudge.

How did you cope when it was just one of them playing up and the other was in tears because obstructive little sibling was once again preventing making them late for where they wanted to go, exotic?

Sometimes there is a huge advantage in having a big gap in ages! DS1 was 10yrs old before DS2 got to the 'terrible 2's' and with one DC it is quite easy-they act up and they take the consequences. DS1 was at a reasonable age and he wasn't going to spoil things for a very small DC-DS2 hero worshipped DS1 so he would follow his lead. DS3 was very easy going and just tagged on and fitted in. Maybe I had it easy. I never had to actually get my book out in the car-stopping was enough.

Ah, that explains it.

Ime, the child playing up would invariably be the one who wasn't that keen on going in the first place, whereas the one who was desperate to get to a place in time would feel helpless and frustrated.

Which is why I am not keen on UP. The parent is bound to work on the reasonable child rather than the difficult one.
I never had to stop the car because one didn't want to go-it was always because they thought it a good idea to fight in the back seat and it was never a problem if the eldest was with us-it was the 2 closest in age who fought.
The eldest could be left at home if he didn't want to go.

I don't see why UP says you can't state a consequence and mean it. And it's not child-centred either.

Perhaps I've got it all wrong but I really don't recognise this hand-wringy, oh, we mustn't upset precious Jocasta type parenting as UP at all.

She used to just stop the car, take out a book and sit there until we shut up.

I've done that, risky though. How much blood was drawn inside the car while she was doing that? Any actual damage to the car itself, too?

the child playing up would invariably be the one who wasn't that keen on going in the first place, whereas the one who was desperate to get to a place in time would feel helpless and frustrated.

yeah, I get that loads. The DC start a fight and one or 2 always care more than 1 or 2; basically the one who cares ends up compromising like crazy but firing up a huge long-term resentment and revenge plan; the one who well and truly never wanting to come along or compromise smirks like a demon very openly because he got one over on the others. Until revenge is achieved, etc.

I really think you & your lot lack imagination when it comes to sibling rivalry.

My dd is 16 now and went through a very brief "you can't make me" stage. She was just testing the boundaries.

I told her that, as her parent it was my job to look after her, feed her, clothe her, make sure her health was good and that she went to school. Everything else was a luxury.

So, lifts in the car, sleepovers, fun shopping trips, television, computer games, ipods, music players, trips to the cinema, bowling, meals out, birthday parties, makeup, hair appliances, etc. were all 'extras' which she would not qualify for if she was going to be difficult.

I've always been fair but firm and, even as teenagers, they can see sense. They treat others with respect. They don't just assume that the world owes them a favour, they are considerate and grateful.

If my teenagers are rude and obnoxious they know that they can take themselves elsewhere until they calm down and are ready to talk about whatever is bothering them.

I'm a reasonable person, I am willing to listen and give consideration to their requests and we do often re-negotiate rules as they get older and want more freedom or responsibility. But I refuse to listen if they shout or demand.

I think that the influence comes from what you do and not what you say.
e.g. middle DS was always saying 'throw a sickie' if you didn't want to do something. Interestingly when he was working and he wanted to do something on a workday he couldn't go through with it-I think it was because DH and I never did it, or even thought of doing it.
A lot is down to personality-some children only have to see a boundary to want to push it-it doesn't mean you do away with it. I actually liked them-I found it much simpler to say 'my mother won't let me' when it was something I was a bit scared of doing anyway. It was a great let out!

That is very much my way Fairenuff.

I decided that a lot of the sibling rivalry was for my benefit or to get my attention. I could be out-come into a peaceful house with them doing their own thing in different rooms and then after about 5 mins I would get 'muuuum-x is doing...........'