To get really uncomfortable around a friend when she smacks her children...

[Toowittoowoo]

....and other harsh (in my view) disciplining?

I know it is none of my business how somebody else disciplines their DCs but they are all under 3 and they are so lovely. I also don't always understand why they are smacked - seems like trivial things to me. I just can't see my friend in the same way as I used to if she is capable of treating her children like that.

I think it is a little bit embarrassing to be around a friend who smacks her kids in front of me and it would make me feel uncomfortable.

I made my point earlier regarding this thread and I think it still stands.

However in regards to smacking, as that seems to be what the discussion has become.

It works for some families and doesn't work for others. I would say it isn't working for the OP's friend based on the regularity of its use and I think that all the smackers have been in agreement with that. I don't think there is really that much wrong with the didn't do me any harm argument. I was smacked as a child and it didn't do me any harm. I was smacked probably 10 ten times or less in my childhood and I think I got the whacker once maybe twice.

All 5 of my DCs have been smacked. I'm not keeping count but I know the second from oldest (now late teens) has been smacked once and my youngest (6) has been smacked once. I can remember that with my youngest it was for a very specific incident where she did something very dangerous to her, her sibling and friend despite being specifically told not to do it. I don't have any guilt and I would be astounded if in the future she felt it had any negative effect on her.

Actually kickassmomma it is.
Although I dont necessarily agree, I can empathise with parents who are pushed to the limit and ( ignorant of other methods) lash out and smack.
It's the mentality involved in calmly and purposefully (and proudly?) smacking a child that I just can not get my head around.

I have a friend with a 6 and an 8 year old. She does smack her children and has done it a couple of times in front of me. Usually for safety related reasons - such as child running off out of sight on the way home.

I don't like it but I feel I can't really say anything as her children are much better behaved than mine.

I won't hang out with people who are horrible to their kids. Not least because my 4yo will ask why they're hitting/screaming/physically overpowering their child, and how do we stop them?
I see them in the evenings without kids or not at all & maybe we'll pick up again in a few years. Maybe not.
I do offer breaks to my frazzled friends and take them up on their offers too - even just five mins sometimes makes all the difference.

I think it would depend, for me, on how often she smacked them and what for. Have seen lots of parents use their "strong, firm" voice eventually disintegrate into shrill screeching when the kid continues to completely ignore them. In some situations, especially when the kids are greatly inconveniencing others, a smack to the bottom is not always out of place and saves a lot of time. In others, I think it's warranted if the child is in immediate danger or has just been, and is unlikely to heed your words (eg rushing out on road).

yanbu op I have never forgotten a good friend of mine(as she was then) losing her rag at her ds and really manhandling him. I never felt the same way about her again and never went to her home after that, I don't know if she realised or not but I just felt so sorry for the kid, she had a real problem. She should have known better too she was a nurse and used to nurse children as an n/a before doing her training.

Like i said before some people smack out of frustration and some don't it Isnt fair to tar everyone with the same brush. I can understand it is hard to get your head round. I don't think anyone is proud of smacking though? I'm certainly not but nor am I ashamed? I don't think anyone is proud with the way they punish a child but with the results it has? I the same as one of the other posters said about their friend. I smack when there is a danger to the child
And everything else has failed. I get down to dd's level either smack her hand or her bum ( her hand is more
My choice than her bum) and the. Explain why I smacked her, she the apologises and say if she has run of she either goes in her pushchair or holds my hand. I couldn't possible do all that whilst angry. I have seen someone hit out of anger before. I was actually disgusted. Her child had ran off, she chased after him and hit him rather hard he fell to the floor ad would get up so she
Dragged him by the arm along the floor all in front of a shopping centre full I people! That's when parents loose control!

IMHO

Tolerating someone smacking a child in front of you without some form of reaction sends a message to the child that you are colluding with this and feel its acceptable.

I couldn't be friends with someone who hits her children.

I'd put distance between us and tell her why too.

It's a horrible way to parent.

I've brought up my DC in a country where hitting your children is very clearly illegal, and as a consequence it is much more seldom. It would be naive to pretend it doesn't go on at all, but if parents are discovered doing it there would be firm intervention by social services - probably initially compulsory parenting classes and ultimately removing a child if it is persistently being physically abused.

Hitting the person you're supposedly responsible for is disgraceful. I can just about understand it if someone loses their temper and hits out in anger, but the inevitable consequence of that surely has to be anger management classes. Anyone who hits their child in cold blood is just beyond the pale - get yerselves to a fecking parenting class and learn how to do it without violence!

And can people just stop using the word 'smack' - it makes physical abuse sound too harmless. I don't 'smack' my DH. He doesn't 'smack' me. Neither of us 'smack' random people in the street or our colleagues. And we certainly don't 'smack' the two people who mean most to us in the world - our children. We discipline them with consistency, firmness, and a helluva lot of positive reinforcement of good behaviour. When they were much younger I would certainly pick up and remove a tantrumming child, but that is not in itself a violent act.

In some years time - maybe 10 at the most - hitting your children will be just as unacceptable as smoking during pregnancy is now.

I agree with a previous poster that you should bring it up with your friend. Thinking about what's the worst that could happen, well, you're not currently massively comfortable in her company, so it's no real loss if you lose her friendship over this as you will have done something. I would say it might be best to work out how to tackle it though and perhaps suggest coping strategies or parenting classes. Maybe you could go together. Say along the lines of I don't know how you manage 3 toddlers, but lets do this class together to see if we can both learn something...

My grandmother was violent with my mum. My mum smacked me and my sister and on a couple of memorable occasions beat me to the floor and also smacked my sister when she accidentally hurt herself. She was undoubtedly less violent than my grandmother, but neither me or my sister hit our children. It's abhorrent and being smacked as a child made me feel scornful that my mother couldn't think of a better way of dealing with me. My mum of course has rose tinted specs on about it. She also looks back with nostalgia about our housemistress at school who used to use a fly swat to hit us with. It still makes her smile. Odd. Basic rule of thumb...pick on someone your own size.

Op either cut contact or dont i have friends whom i find some of ther parenting shocking to say the least but.......i am not the childrens parent its up to them as long as there not breaking the law then what can you do

I have a friend whom allows her 7 year old to watch 18 rated films and its always a bit tence when i come over for moive night and her kids are sitting with us but the bottom line is there her kids not mine i dont like it so i dont let my children watch 18 rated films.

Whatever friends you have there will always be aspects of there parenting you fird diffcult you may cut her out and get a new firends who leave her children alone or allows there teen to drink

Why dont you suggest other stratgies with coming on to strong i would just let her get on with it

I'm a little relived that most of you agree that I am not being unreasonable and I would like to add that I am making no judgement about smacking. Before having my DC I was neither pro- nor anti- smacking and I was certainly smacked as a child as discipline when I was very naughty and i remember it working, however, it turns out now I have DD that I would not feel comfortable ever doing it to her especially at toddler age when they are just as likely to do it back to be honest. I don't agree with violence ever being used and I want to bring my DD up to be nice to people above all else so it not the approach for me.

However, it is the regularity that it is used by my friend that I find uncomfortable and for such small things that makes me feel that I don't know her at all and I don't understand her. And, obviously, we do not share the same values and are not going to bring our children up to have even similar values.

I am however, slightly surprised how many of you think I should tell her. Isn't the one golden rule of being friends with other parents that you NEVER criticise somebody else parenting. Also as i stated in the second post I have 1 DC (a [mostly] well behaved 3yr DD) and she has 3 DC all under 3. I have no idea how hard things are for her are I would never like to presume that I know better about parenting as I don't. Oh its hard....very hard.....

maybe I wish you'd all replied to say that I was being totally unreasonable and then I could have used it as justification for carrying on as we were.

Thank, lots for food for thought and good to get to get other mum's opinions as I couldn't discuss this in RL as I wouldn't want it to be perceived as gossip.

I really don't understand the rationale behind physical punishment.
If you do it out of loss of control/high anger, you need to learn self control, and how to discipline. Effective parenting means not getting to the point of lashing out at a child, if you are lashing out, you aren't being effective, so you need to look at your own methods.
If you simply have it as a 'tool in your tool box', and you believe it does no harm, are you also ok with other people hitting your child, like teachers?
Would you be ok with their future partners hitting them?
If you think it is acceptable because the person being hit is unable to understand verbal reasoning, is it also ok to hit people with developmental disabilities who lack understanding? Can you justify hitting someone with dementia who is putting themselves in danger?
Or does it come down to "I made the kid, so I can do what I want?"

I was beaten as a child. Not 'smacked', the full on, bruising, bleeding sort. By a parent who couldn't control their temper. Is there some kind of test that says you get to hit your kids, but your neighbour can't, and her across the road can hit her kids, but only when she's sober?

The reason people are urging you to speak up OP is because there is a difference between saying "you should not smack" and " Please don't smack infront of me" Whatever your views are, you have every right to question behaviour that makes you uncomfortable.
I have a friend that swears very liberally. She sees no issue with swearing in front of her child and I see no issue with asking her not to swear in front of mine. We are very good friends and manage to live side by side with different parenting styles.

No decent loving parent smacks their children. I would not hesitate to report a smacking incident to the Police/NSPCC. It is abuse. End of.

I agree with nope you should question her the one thing I have about snacking is I don't do it in public. If it is something I need to do while away from home i take dd into a corner or to the toilet etc

Effective parenting means not losing control-this isn't only with smacking though.I've seen parents lose control in high anger shouting ,berating,making empty threats that I think actually are far worse than a measured controlled tap.

Personally I think it's quite a problem and a far bigger problem that is often excused because it isn't smacking.

I also think describing abuse which can happen in the above scenarios too isn't how the majority of parents smack at all.

I don't smack myself before I'm hung drawn and quartered.

Excellent post SoldAtAuction.

So kickassmomma, you wait until you're somewhere private an unseen before hitting your child? I suppose its better to have no witnesses.

Willesden if it is a light tap that doesn't leave a mark you will be laughed at.

Would you report somebody that was shouting out of control?

Or even controlled shouting?

But Polkadot, the berating and such would fall into the whole 'you need to learn better methods of parenting', it still doesn't make smacking a good option.
Thank etch