To get really uncomfortable around a friend when she smacks her children...

[Toowittoowoo]

....and other harsh (in my view) disciplining?

I know it is none of my business how somebody else disciplines their DCs but they are all under 3 and they are so lovely. I also don't always understand why they are smacked - seems like trivial things to me. I just can't see my friend in the same way as I used to if she is capable of treating her children like that.

I hate smacking and couldn't be friends with someone that did it.

There's just no need. It says more about the adults lack of control than anything else.

I've never ever smacked my children and it would never enter my head to do so. Ever.

What is it with smacking threads at the mo?

Yanbu. Your friend is lucky you are not me I would feel compelled to say something like

"you are a piss poor parent, I would rather not associate with people like you"

I don't think the smacking aspect is that relevant, its more that you don't like her parenting behaviour.

If you're good friends you should be able to tell her this.

Otherwise don't interact with her as a parent, as I think another poster already suggested. I don't like the parenting styles of a few friends. One screeches constantly, even in public, the kids can't even take a breath without some squawking of their names, embarrassing. One gets herself into such a state then goes to pieces and gets very sort of pathetic or snappy. The other is prone to speaking to her children every 30 seconds meaning I never get to finish a sentence and instead watch her family production of getting a coffee.

The actual crimes aren't relevant, if you don't like her behaviour, don't spend time with her. Smacking might make you uncomfortable, and it does sound as if she is making bizarre use of it, but it could be various other kinds of behaviour so maybe just keep her at arms length for now.

I don't think individual poster's personal preference towards smacking is that relevant its that you are uncomfortable about your friends behaviour regardless of what it is.

I have smacked my DS when he was younger. Now he is 4 and I can't remember the last time he was smacked. Thats because he can understand now and things like taking toys away, time out etc work better.
An occasional smack, which really is just a tap on the hand or bottom, does work ime. How do you reason with a 2 year old? They don't understand that they shouldn't do x because its dangerous/not appropriate. But they do understand that doing x means a smack, so it does stop the behaviour.
Smacking too much is not effective though and if someone is doing it several times a day, something is going wrong i.e other methods like distraction need to be developed. Smacking can and is used by normal, rational people, but its the minority who take it too far.
Unfortunately it is now seen as 'abuse' so people are scared to admit that they do it.

I have spanked my children. Afterwards I always wonder if there is something I could have done which would have prevented the situation escalating. I'm sure there probably is but at the time I do it it is beyond that. It is an extremely rare thing and not something I rely on for normal day to day discipline. I never threaten it. I am not saying this to justify myself but just to give the other side of the story.

There is not uncontrollable rage just immense irritation, it is on the bottom and I seriously doubt that it is painful.

I was spanked, I don't know whether I think it's the right form if discipline. I don't want my children to be scared of me. When I have been close to losing it I have not spanked but walked away. I do not think the fact that I was spanked damaged me apart from maybe conditioning me to spank my own children. I was in an abusive relationship but left pretty quickly so I've never felt that it's ok for people to hit me because I was spanked.

In an ideal world I wouldn't spank my children - I have spanked them for ignoring me telling them not to hit a smaller child and for running out in front of a car and for absolutely point blank refusing to leave the house to take older brother to school and once I think for lying about lying.

I know it sounds counter-intuitive to hit for hitting and probably is but so is confiscating a toy for taking it off another child and all sorts of other things. In fact I do not want my children to replicate our relationship with anyone apart from their own children because the imposition of one's own will onto another persons behaviour should be unique to parent children relationships otherwise it's controlling.

OP I think your friend is over-spanking and threatening and she could probably do with sometime to herself or a holiday to rediscover the magic of her children. I don't think YABU to ask her if she's ok or say that it makes you uncomfortable when she disciplines like that but is there other stress in her life which is causing her to get more irritable?

YANBU - that must be such a horrible afternoon out for al concerned if she is smacking the children in front of you. That sounds dreadful.

I would say though, I have felt even MORE uncomfortable watching a "timeout" being enforced by a friend who is forever banging on about how she would never, ever smack...

Her DD was held on the naughty step by force and when that descended into rage, she was strapped, hysterical, into a pushchair for her full 3 minute punishment. Not entirely convinced a single smack on the bottom would not have been less hurtful - both mentally and physically. It was godawful to witness.

Also, I was the first of my group to have children, and a good friend took me aside whilst I was pregnant and tearfully asked me not to "cold parent" as a form of punishment/discipline. She was NEVER smacked but her relationship with her mother is very, very complex as a result of this withdrawal of affection as punishment.

I don't think you ABU to get uncomfortable with smacking and if you find your friends parenting overly harsh.

I would feel similar, I couldn't sit and watch smacks being given out regularly and not say something myself, I don't know anyone who smacks and have never done so myself so thankfully not had to deal with it personally but if I did see it i'd be having some words.

I would be prepared to lose a friendship over it also. I agree with the other posters who say it's not ok to hit anyone, and especially someone much younger and more vulnerable than you.

I raised my had to smack my son once when he was a toddler and I felt I had run out of other options. In that split second I realised that I couldn't be that sort of parent and it would make me feel like a massive shit forever. So I found another way.

Bollywood, my two year old DS does respond to reason sometimes, for example he understands the concept of hurting himself so if I ask him to stop doing something because he'll get hurt he gets that. But even in cases where reason doesn't work I don't smack. He responds very well to my tone of voice, so if I tell him to stop doing something he generally does, but if that doesn't work then I remove him from the situation. No need to hurt him IME.

I do not smack my children and think it is the wrong approach, but - I do think pessarypam is getting over the top responses.

Although I don't believe smacking children is the right approach, I'll always tell my kids to defend themselves (in the playground etc) if some other kid hits them and to hit them back.

I smack my dd on rare occassions and it works. But I can imagine it is a shock to anyone who hasn't witnessed it. I was smacked as a child and I feel I learnt best that way. I do however think yabu to loose friendship over it. I would feel very angry toward anyone of my friends who stopped talking/seeing me simply because my way of discipline is different to theres. However thankfully my friends no I smack and have seen me use this punishment before therefore are not shocked when I do use it. People have different ways of parenting and some feel smacking is an acceptable form of punishment. However, if you do feel she is being really harsh and/or using too much force you should Definitly have a talk with her. I've known people to smack everytime a child does something wrong as the parent has gotten 'used' to using that form of punishment

Aaaaarghhh, why do I always click on smacking threads when I know full well they raise my blood pressure!! It is not "only" a slap, nor does the "I was spanked and it didn't do my any harm" tripe make it OK. It is not all right for an adult to hit a child. There are always other ways to discipline children. It's a completely outdated method and the sooner it's made bloody illegal, the better.
And breathe...
Oh, and I would ditch that friend. Actually, no, I'd tell her that I found her smacking really upsetting, and stick my neck out and ask if she'd thought about other, non-violent ways to discipline her child. I'd fully expect to be shown the door after that

Ahem

Just to say, the alternative to smacking isn't other forms of aggression like physically forcing a child into time out, or the withdrawal of affection.

The term discipline has become really corrupted to the point where many seem to feel discipline has to be coercive and negative in order to be effective. Discipline is about teaching a child, which involves recognising their capabilities and their difficulties and working around them. It doesn't mean exerting power over a child so that they conform to certain way of behaving.

What pisses me off most is when I see a parent putting their child in a situation that they're clearly not capable of handling, such as a situation where the child is very hungry or tired or overwhelmed by other children, and then goes ballistic at the child for not behaving perfectly even though the child is either not capable of it or has never been taught how to do it.

You have to do the work with children. You can't just throw them into a situation, expect perfect behaviour and unleash punishment if that doesn't happen. You have to be aware of what they're actually able to manage and don't put them in situations where they are going to misbehave mainly because they just can't handle what's going on.

OP, you're not being unreasonable. Her behaviour to her child is obviously making you feel very uncomfortable. I would have to tell her why I no longer wanted to be friends with her though.

I'm not a smacker myself and whilst I can understand some rationalising smacking as a necessary "tool in their toolkit" it just screams "parent out of control to me". I was in Tesco the other week and a toddler was acting up, the mother shrieked at her that she was going to pull her trousers and pants down in the middle of the shop and slap her bottom in front of everyone.

I'd rather use the naughty corner or confiscate a favourite toy for a few hours and give them time to think. Couldn't give a shit if someone thinks I'm an ineffectual parent for doing this, I can live with myself knowing that I've not raised my hands to my kids.

In a minute some smug slapper will rock up to tell you you're indulging in emotional bullying, Fanjo.

Makes me boak to read the justifications of those who hit people who can't defend themselves.

ALL the justifications for hitting children can be used to justify hitting people with SN.

Not so clever now, eh?

Sil smacks my niece and nephew. We have totally different styles of parenting. They are her children. I mind my own business. It's Fuck all to do with me.

Fanjo I'm a 'smackers' and im certainly not a parent out control? I will only smack dd when I no I am not angry and I am aware of the strength I am using! I can understand that many parents come across this way as a lot smack out f frustration but some dont and it's a little unfair to brand all smacking parents as 'out of control'

Ok,I'm not going to get into the whole anti/pro smacking debate as this isn't actually what the thread is about. I will say that I have a strong anti-smack opinion that has been forged through critical thinking rather than with much emotional sway.
In this circumstance OP yadnbu. Whilst your friend may have the 'law' on her side, you have the absolute right to raise concerns about behaviour that makes you uncomfortable. She can choose to do with that info whatever the hell she pleases.

When it comes to judging people, I am a strong believer in judging the attitude rather than the action. Although I don't smack, I would not 'dump' a friend who smacked their children occasionally at the end of their tether. But often? With no sense of embarassment? In front of you? I'd drop em like a lead balloon. And they'd know why as well.

I don't smack. I don't think it is justifiable personally. However, it is legal and, when used appropriately, there is no evidence that it does any harm. THe trouble is that IMO most parents who use smacking don't use it appropriately. They hit in anger, frustration and impotence. Which sends completely the wrong message and is damaging.

It sounds to me that the OP's friend is coping badly and could do with some help to build a repertoire of parenting techniques that will work more effectively. Are you good enough friends to discuss this with her OP?

Being "in control" makes it worse. Premeditated. Calculating

Cailin I totally agree about avoiding situations which are hard for the child to handle, if the parent doesn't do this they can't really expect their child to behave within the normal boundaries. I read a great book on parenting talking about the reptilian lash-out reflex and how to avoid it (not purely aimed at smacking but any punishment which either can't be enforced or is disproportionate etc).

I don't know if you were referring to my post about exerting power to conform to expected behaviour. If you were I probably didn't put it well, all I meant to say is that the nature of a parent child relationship is unique in the way guidance is given and there does need to be a level of loving authority in it which doesn't occur in other relationships.

I was only raising this point to suggest that just because your parents smack you might not automatically lead to you smacking others just as it wouldn't lead you to assume an air of authority with others just because your parents have that air with you from time to time.

Anyway I think gut instinct is a fairly handy guide and if you feel unsettled OP it probably is OTT punishment

I agree echt I can never understand 'I never hit when angry' smackers

Why do you not understand them? It's not hard to comprehend?

YANBU, it would make me feel uncomfortable too. I always think it's weird when you see an otherwise calm, non-violent person hitting their children. Even though not everyone who smacks their child is automatically a thug, and people have allsorts of reasons (or excuses) for doing it, it always seems cowardly to me. I just think, well you wouldn't turn around and slap me if I'd done something similar, so why a small child?

I was smacked - not beaten, and I don't harbour resentment now, but my parents were quick with their hands - and I became one of those kids who don't even flinch. Because it didn't work. Maybe the first few times it's a bit of a shock, but after that you start to realise that there are worse things. As I got older, I knew I would rather get a smack than be grounded, or have something taken off me, or be sent to bed early, etc, and frankly my parents would sooner have swung for me anyway because it was easier for them to follow through with. When I got to probably about thirteen, I started to see it as disrespectful, and I hit my mum back a few times, which resulted in full-on fights.

I think, if any method of parenting is "ineffectual," then it's using violence in place of teaching reasoning and a sense of consequences. After all, in the real world, it's very rare that someone will hit you for doing something wrong, and kids should grow up knowing that it is absolutely not okay for anyone to hit them, or for them to hit anyone else.