Older boyfriend wants to retire early...??!!

[foxyfi111]

Hi all. I have no kids currently but hoping there are some nice people out there with more experience than me that can advise me. Essentially - I am 29, my partner is 40, we both currently work fulll time. I love my job (in pharmaceuticals), he hates working (teacher - gets lovely holidays off). He dropped a bombshell recently that he wants to retire at 55, ie 15 years time. We were thinking of starting a family in a few years. I think his plan is that I will continue to work (ie for another 20 years until Im 65, whilst he is retired). I hadnt thought that I would stop work as I enjoy it at the moment but I didnt see myself being the breadwinner

Am I being unreasonable to think he is being really selfish? He has money which he has made on property (about 80 grand) so its not like he's not going to be contributing to our relationship financially. His idea is that he will be a house-husband and keep things running at home. Does anyone else have such an arrangement, and does it cause loads of arguments? Its probably not right for me to say he cant retire early, as without me he could afford to do so, but Im just thinking - with a young family, someone has to pay the bills and I feel a bit forced into it being me

I feel I cant really make a big deal out of this yet as we dont have kids yet but it is something that keeps me awake at night. I'm worried that if we got married we'd end up arguing over it later in life. I know its a price you pay for going out with an older man but I just dont know whether I should put my foot down or not, help!!

OP you do realise that he's never going to change right? Surely at 29 you're not that naive? [thinks back to self at 29] hmmm perhaps you are. I feel really sorry for you. You sound so desperate to get on with the stuff of life, marriage, children, a life with a like minded companion, you've mistaken this man for something he isn't.

Forget you being resentful of him ( albeit a very real possibility when you squander a few more years on a commitment phobic bachelor), think about his resentment of you if you somehow manage to cajole him into family life, it's attendant stresses, financial pressures, lack of time to yourselves etc.

I thought your description of him as 'charming' and 'sweet' smacked of someone you don't really know. At 40 people come along with more baggage. You aren't going to understand him for a few more years yet, especially as he keeps you at arms length.

Walk away, if he really wants you he will come to you, but most likely given his history, he won't.

Its not your fault you got sidetracked with the wrong man. If you decide to ignore all the advice on here and continue trying to 'domesticate' him, you'll only have yourself to blame if you find yourself stuck in the wrong relationship or alone & not getting what you want out of life.

With the right person it doesn't have to be this hard. You deserve better. [hugs]

I certainly believe it is possible for an older man to be a good dad to young children.

I also believe it is possible for a retired man to make a good SAHP.

My FIL managed both and he was approaching 70 at the time.

But then I suspect he was a rather different man to the OPs boyfriend...

I think you have got to the age of 29 and are now looking towards starting your own family and he just happens to be the man you are with and so you will try to mold him into being what you want.

You say you want to buy a house with him for a round £600k yet he hasn't even committed to wanting to move in with you yet and only wants to see you twice a week. You say he will have £80k equity in his current flat which he plans on using to fund an early retirement so where is this £80K going either the home that you plan or his retirement fund. Do you have a large amount of savings as either way your mortgage will be pretty hefty.
Then you say you want a family with him, so high mortgage costs, childcare costs and a possible early retirement. Hardly a great life plan.

BTW a good man isn't measured by whether he buys you gifts and takes you out. But by what he brings into your life, his love support, understanding and commitment to your life together. The man could not have a pot to piss in but if he gave you all these things then your life will be all the richer.

I agree with LtEve. I don't see anything wrong with this guy really. I sounds as if he has been honest about what he wants and the OP is just choosing to ignore this and continue with her plans.

I was with a younger man who wasn't really bothered about children, he made vague noises about some time in the future and I read into that what I wanted. I arrogantly believed he would want kids etc because i wanted that. He never started the conversations, he was always very dismissive and kept saying 'in the future'. We married and after a year of marriage when I was 32 I suggested we start trying for dc. He then said he didn't want to start trying till he was 37 at least. That would have made me 42. It ended badly and we filed for divorce after being together for 11 years. On reflection he told me over and order again, but I blundered on, choosing not to listen. He is happy. Now going to music festivals and I have now got a ds with a new dh. It was a mess entirely of my own making tho.

I just read the last line of the OP (didn't notice what it actually said before) I think the reaction if she 'put her foot down' about his retirement plans would be for him to put his feet down.............. one after the other as he runs for his bachelor life

The thing is his plan assumes that you are willing to support him financially.

If he can provide proof that he has a suffiecient plan to provide for this plan then fair enough.

Then calculate how much of today's income from your joint income (assuming you are living together as an equal partnership currently) and you have an equal amount out of the joint income to invest in your pension.

If the 2 amounts together are not affforded within the household income and budget then he can not afford his plan currently and both "pots" should decrease equally.

You have the right to provide equally for your retirements and to retire early means a lot of investment - but taking in to account your joint budget he has a maximum he can afford - if situations change eg incomes rise or fall you would adjust your contributions and retirement date accordingly.

So he ibu to have assumed and is something that requires discussion.

You both need to invest in your retirement - especially out of a joint income - events such as separation or loss of a spouse could leave you in a poor financial position.

For now I think I'll just focus on just general domestication as the aim. I.e hanging out more than two nights a week...and hopefully getting a date to move in together soon. I dont think he's being commitment shy to be an idiot, I think he's more scared because he's not done it before and it will be a big change to his life, for a man who doesnt deal well with change

You would think it was a child or a shy and half-tamed animal you were talking about, not a 40 year old man.

I think you are in his thrall and probably not seeing the reality, and you will probably only see reality in several years time, once he has fecked off back to his bachelor lifestyle and occasional girlfriend who makes no demands. (whoever said that is very wise I think).

I also can't see how your house buying figures add up. You say his flat is worth £300,000 and he will have 80k equity when he sells it. Presumably you are counting on his current mortgage being portable, for which you usually have to buy within 6 months again. Or would he start a new mortgage, which will probably come with a term of 20 or 25 years, based on his retiring at 65. Will he lie to the mortgage provider and tell them this is his aim?

To buy a £600,000 house on this basis, with 80k deposit between you, you will have to convince a mortgage company, in the present lending climate, to lend you £520,000. Based on the standard 2 1/2 times your salary, you will need to be earning £208,000 each, and be in secure jobs. Or you could be earning £100,000 and he could be earning £308,000...or vice versa...

I didn't know teachers earned that much, but perhaps you earn hundreds of thousands of pounds per year?

You will have to get a joint mortgage if buying a property together. Its not just a matter of saying his current flat is worth £300,000 and he will get a £300,000 mortgage just like that, with an 80k deposit, and you getting 3 or more times your salary on top of that. For joint mortgages, its usually 2 1/2 times the joint salaries. Even if it wern't you would need to be earning around £70,000 pa to fund that extra £200,000.

Anyway, once you have your £520,000 mortgage, you will have to pay it. I think this will cost about £3000 a month. Once he retires at 55, you will have 10 years of paying that on your own, and house prices and salaries might not rise as much as people used to think were a guarantee. You will also be saving (presumably) to send a child or children through university...

lessmissabs I agree with much of your post but your sums are a bit flawed. Lenders work on around 2 1/2 times your joint salary so their combined income needs to be about £208k, not each. Still high though

Yes, mistake there. £208,000 is how much they'd need to be earning jointly to buy a £600,000 house with an 80k deposit. Both over £100,000 or one well over £100,000 and the other not far behind.

Oh sorry - you're not in a fully committed relationship yet - let alone on the same income and expenditure spreadsheet.

While your finances are separate then he has every right to plan for his retirement within his income.

It would need discussion if you move in together as well as when you decide to ttc etc - life goes up and down so nothing is set in stone.

I would say not to worry about his current plans - it is something you would look at further ahead - you aren't there yet.

Well - with the sums...he earns ~£55,000 i earn £40,000 but that will probably go up at least £10,000 for me in a few years. He has been paying his current mortgage off for at least 5 years and the £80,000 is from the house making profit. We have about £10,000 each in savings. I dont know if we could afford a £600,000 house but it would be a fair family home.

He wants kids more than me at the moment. He goes on about it. But I dont think he wants the mess of kids or has any idea how it would impact on his life. Its probably the turning 40 thing

With the comments about my "taming" him and him being a project, yes its true to some extent. But in my last relationship it took 4 years to move in together, and again that was me having to persuade him. For most of my friends they have had to be the persuader about this, I dont think its uncommon. Men like freedom...

I dont know many people who just fell into the perfect relationship, the kind of couples that smuggly go "We are so on the same page, You just know when you meet The One" are the kind of people who get divorced 5 years later and come crawling back for a glass of rose and advice on being single. I am trying to be realistic about our issues, in doing so I am probably making things sound worse than they are

I think I am going to raise the issue of the future with him. And perhaps point out that early retirement and quiet Man Time and raising a family dont really mix. Its then up to him to decide what he wants

I think it's a good idea to raise the question of the future with him.

Men like freedom...

Bullshit.

Only men who don't want to settle down with you want freedom. Sorry OP but you're being sold a donkey here

It is a very good idea to have a proper talk with him. I think you need to live together first to see if you are suited. I think most marriages break up because people did not live together and get to know eachother properly first.

My husband and I are rarely on the same page, we meet now on then, sharing a paragraph or two.

We were just 21 when we met, married, gosh, cant remember, think it was in 1999. Yup. First child in 2002. I am now 41. We met in 1993, so been together 6 years before marriage and 9 years before we had the first child. I am not smug. Life is not perfect. But we are relatively happy. Our happyness or lack of happyness have not much to do with us as a couple as it has to do with our circumstances.

And also, why ever would you want someone who had to be persuaded to be with you? Wouldn't you rather someone who couldn't bear not to be with you?

Don't sell yourself short.

I have found the opposite to be true, once the man is ready to settle down, it happens and not before. I can't say I see the dignity or the point in having to persuade someone to build a life with you, if they are not keen from the off-set, I think they are far more likely to stray/lack the staying power later on.

But- talking honestly to this man seems the way forward.

Oh and we both have private pensions. Yes I know a good man isnt measured by how much they take you out and buy you presents, thats why I let that slide at the beginning.

And yes I think he will change, at least a bit. When I first met him we would just spend one or two quiet nights in together a week. He hardly contacted me and usually put seeing his friends before seeing me. Now its the other way round. We now usually spend a lot of the weekend together, had all of xmas together, and have a 2 week holiday booked. He is quitting smoking as I hate it and finally talking about seeing each other more in the week (I am often away with work so that doesnt help). Whoever says men dont change its not true, they do if they want the relationship enough. He seems happier as well for having made these changes.

Dont get me wrong - it was a lot easier with my last bf to ask him to commit to the relationship, although it still took us 4 years to live together (we were younger though). I think we are being careful to keep our own lives because we have both had long term relationships which have ended, and have seen how important that is. Also there is nothing worse than moving out again if it doesnt work so I can see why he is cautious. He says he believes that if you move in together you should get married fairly soon after (not entirely my belief as I think you should live together for a while first but perhaps that would be my turn to stall things.) I dont think you get a committed partner overnight and Im prepared to work at it because there are good things in this relationship which were missing from my previous one and I think they might be hard to find (patience, caring, intelligence, chemistry). Admittedly we might be missing a bit of respect (him of me), communication, and shared ambition.

sugarandspite - yet to find that man! At least anyone who cant bear not to be with me every single day that I feel similarly about. Possibly I find it unattractive :-S Is that weird?!