To say he can't go to stag do if there are going to be strippers?

[DelphineD]

I'm sorry if this ends up being long; I will try to keep it as concise as possible.

Last year DP went to a stag do (first one that has come up whilst we have been together). It was one of his closest friends, and one that I previously liked and respected. They were away for 2 nights. I had wondered if some sort of strip thing might be involved but I thought probably not as the friend was not that kind of man and DP assured me when he got back that there was nothing of the kind. I later found out (through my scarily good investigation and interrogation!!) that this was not the case. On the first night they had been to a strip club and on the second night there were topless waitresses at their apartment for about 3 hours. This info came out bit by bit. Each time DP would insist there was nothing more to tell, then I found out something else. Eventually I think I got a full confession out of him but it was difficult to be sure as he had lied so many times about it. I also got out of him that there had been topless waitresses at a work party he had attended some time before (I had suspected something wrong and he had always denied it before.) He claimed all this was not of his doing, it was not really of interest to him and he just went along with it because they were in a group and he didn't want to make a fuss etc etc. If he had had a lap dance, I would have broken up with him (friend had a lap dance and the man has gone down a lot in my estimation.) As it was I nearly broke up with him anyway. He knew how much I hated strippers and how I would feel about it, and he did it anyway. But I think the most damaging thing was the lying. I trusted him before, and he had destroyed all that.

We got over it and agreed that if there was anything like this again he would tell me the truth and face the music. He understands how much more damaging it was that he lied about it. Since then, I have been to a work party where there was a male stripper. I didn't know in advance but I did know once I got there and I could have come home. It seemed a bit hypocritical, but I went anyway. I just sat at the back, while some of the married women in my group, went up on stage, straddled the stripper, took their wedding rings off, etc etc. That made me think that I wasn't so worried about DP being present in a large room where women were stripping, it was how he behaved and the interaction that would bother me. Hence why I was more upset about the topless women in the apartment than the ones in the strip club. FWIW I believe he would have behaved in a similar way to me in his situation. But his friend having that lap dance upset me, and made me think you can't trust any man, even the ones who seem nice and like they really love their partners.

Now he has his DB's stag party coming up. It's in the city where we live, but some people will be coming from elsewhere so there will be an apartment rented again. He has said he will tell the truth about it this time. He has admitted that the best man is planning something to do with strippers but nothing is booked in yet. I'm already feeling upset about it already and I just don't want him to be around strippers at all. WIBU to say, if that is happening, I don't want you to go at all?

What seeker and Bela have said.

Delphine, if you're still here - Your DH can make clear his dislike of purchasing sex services (preferably his dislike, not 'because the wife says') and quit when the women arrive. If there's a late-night bar or cafe nearby, he could go there and may be surprised to find some of the others joining him. There are often a few would-be abstainers in a stag party, waiting for someone else to take the initiative and arrange something else.

pictish it doesn't make it alright for 'us'. I think women hiring naked butlers is crass, tasteless, sexually objectifying of men and like a Full Monty show, would be about as entertaining to me personally as a Jim Davidson cabaret .

But it's not the same and can never be when men have more rights in society than women, not just in the sex industry, but in every sphere of life.

My husband refuses to go to anything that involves women being used,

It is entirely his choice made long before he met me, he just happens to have an opinion that he doesn't want to contribute to women being exploited, it doesn't really limit his social life, as the vast majority of his male friends also don't enjoy using women, when they go away they have a lot of fun, doing extreme sports, gaming, mixing, partying,festivals, they have an amazing time.

Your choices define you,

I doubt I would of continued to be attracted to him, had I when getting to know him, noticed he supported using women, or anyone else,

I'm sure that one of the things that made me think this is the guy for me was his personal moral code.

for me, how someone behaves towards and cares about others is important,

When suppliers are trying to woo our business, they often put on entertainment nights, and wonder why he is not interested in attending, it's so normalised that it doesn't occur to them that some men don't want to be a part of it. He then finds new suppliers.

we have as a couple being doing support work for people in difficult situations, you can't do that in an honest way if you are involved in the persecution,

My husband grew up in a home where his mother, took in distressed women and their children, so he saw first hand the results of men's behaviour to women, MiL never said no as she knew there was no where else in those days for women to go,

you don't have to be around support work for very long before you understand the effect the sex industry has on women, it's not harmless, so if you support it you are a part of the abuse and all the ripple outwards,

OP, I really feel for you, your husband has different values to yourself, that is going to be very hard to live with.

I always wonder with these men that use strippers, if they would encourage their mums,wives, sisters or daughters into doing it, I assume so, which is so creepy,

It is not logical that they wouldn't want their own family members doing it, if they want other people's mums, wives,daughters and sisters to do it.

Who wants to be with a man who will get his daughter to strip to excite men.

seeker
" "Try a different approach and people might listen rather than automatically tune out...."

What approach would you suggest?"

Maybe seeing that objectifying a person for their body is objectifying them regardless of sex.

"I think women hiring naked butlers is crass, tasteless, sexually objectifying of men and like a Full Monty show, would be about as entertaining to me personally as a Jim Davidson cabaret"

yy I agree.

But again...you are saying that it is more acceptable for women than men, because there's less of it. Surely the attitudes are the same?

Exactly Ledker.
The thing I object to most of all with this kind of shit is how women are conned for want of a better word about what goes on at stag do's, all male events etc.
Treated like Mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed shit.

I've seen the argument that men view going to a strip club as "no big deal" a bit like live porn, pretty meaningless - if that was even partially true, why all the secrecy and lies surrounding those activities?

"he was best man and you do expect men to do this sort of thing when they get a couple of days freedom" - What a horrible view of men to have , I don't expect men to behave like that, the 3 men I know best in my life certainly don't.

"I'm not naive. I'm asking for a genuine reason, because I suspect we gals just may be kidding ourselves when it comes to the tables being turned. So far I haven't been offered one. That more women than men are exploited in the sex industry than men, and that less women pay for sex doesn't make naked butlers any more acceptable! It just means there's less of it...but it doesn't answer my question of what makes it ok for us."

I don't think I said it was "OK for us, did I? I meant to say that it was different. And I thought I had explained why?

Interesting that we're talking about men again, isn't it?

ok so clamber down off your soapbox,what a huge extrapolation you make
men who go see lapdance will have daughters who sexually excite men for money?
and yiu know this how?I do agree participation in lapdance clubs supports sex industry.but no way can you predict this to these men will get their daughters to strip to excite men

There are often a few would-be abstainers in a stag party, waiting for someone else to take the initiative and arrange something else.

YY to this. My male relatives have done done this several times, when they've been invited to stag parties. As either the first ones to say 'no thanks, that's not my thing' or as following abstainers. The peer pressure involved in this culture is enormous, but all it needs is a bit of leadership for others to follow.

Delphine, does your BIL's fiancée know about the 'strippers'?

Pictish- have you read the posts about the power balance? Oh, and I don't actually think there is any evidence of men being trafficked and abused in the sex industry in any great numbers? There is presumably no need to- because there are enough men who are are prepared to do it for the money. I suspect that it is a free choice for male strippers.

Look - I'm not up for any of it...no matter who is doing it.
I'm just thinking out loud.
I still haven't had a good reason why women doing it is less sleazy and exploitative than men...that's all.

No it's not more acceptable for women. It's just as unacceptable in my view.

Just because something's equally unacceptable, doesn't mean it's equally politically meaningful when it happens.

I suspect that it is a free choice for male strippers.

mmm...there, now I think that's genuinely naive, because I wouldn't presume that to be true. I think men are victims of sexual exploitation too.

I'm not too bothered as to what other women find acceptable in their own relationships. What always pisses me off on these threads is that posters are told they are controlling and insecure just because they don't like it.
It always seems the most secure and solid women on here who do object.
It is ok to disagree in a relationship you know.

"I suspect that it is a free choice for male strippers."

mmm...there, now I think that's genuinely naive, because I wouldn't presume that to be true. I think men are victims of sexual exploitation too."

That's why I said "I suspect". However, are you aware of a big problem of trafficked men working in the sex industry?

Have you read the posts about the power balance?)

Yes...I have...but I didn't consider them relevant to MY query. You haven't disclosed anything I didn't already know.

Fgs, pictish, don't be so daft! Try posting an ad for men to be paid for sex.
Wade through your replies and then tell me who's objectifying whom.

Ashoething
"Yep ledkr-as I said further up the thread you only have to watch one of those vile lads stags do shows to see what goes on and they probably dont show the half of it!"

If you believe that these shows are the norm then you are naive

ledkr

"What always pisses me off on these threads is that posters are told they are controlling and insecure just because they don't like it."

What is controlling is telling someone what they can and can't do.
If the OP or anyone else finds it a dealbreaker then fair enough. On this thread we have had a poster tell their DP that they couldn't go clubbing because the Ex was there, if it had been a male that did this etc. etc.

Sorry Garlic - I don't quite grasp what you mean.

I find threads like this very odd indeed. I seem to be in a minority that isn't afraid of telling my husband what behaviour I would be unhappy with, without fear of being called controlling/insecure etc as he would to me. And whats even odder it would seem is that we both listen to one another!

Sorry, pictish, mine was a response to your post ten minutes ago:

" I suspect that it is a free choice for male strippers.

"mmm...there, now I think that's genuinely naive, because I wouldn't presume that to be true. I think men are victims of sexual exploitation too. "

Fair point well made, Fut

Do you not think men are sexually exploited too then?

Fut

The difference is in the discussion. He listens to you. You listen to him.