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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say he can't go to stag do if there are going to be strippers?

695 replies

DelphineD · 09/02/2013 23:10

I'm sorry if this ends up being long; I will try to keep it as concise as possible.

Last year DP went to a stag do (first one that has come up whilst we have been together). It was one of his closest friends, and one that I previously liked and respected. They were away for 2 nights. I had wondered if some sort of strip thing might be involved but I thought probably not as the friend was not that kind of man and DP assured me when he got back that there was nothing of the kind. I later found out (through my scarily good investigation and interrogation!!) that this was not the case. On the first night they had been to a strip club and on the second night there were topless waitresses at their apartment for about 3 hours. This info came out bit by bit. Each time DP would insist there was nothing more to tell, then I found out something else. Eventually I think I got a full confession out of him but it was difficult to be sure as he had lied so many times about it. I also got out of him that there had been topless waitresses at a work party he had attended some time before (I had suspected something wrong and he had always denied it before.) He claimed all this was not of his doing, it was not really of interest to him and he just went along with it because they were in a group and he didn't want to make a fuss etc etc. If he had had a lap dance, I would have broken up with him (friend had a lap dance and the man has gone down a lot in my estimation.) As it was I nearly broke up with him anyway. He knew how much I hated strippers and how I would feel about it, and he did it anyway. But I think the most damaging thing was the lying. I trusted him before, and he had destroyed all that.

We got over it and agreed that if there was anything like this again he would tell me the truth and face the music. He understands how much more damaging it was that he lied about it. Since then, I have been to a work party where there was a male stripper. I didn't know in advance but I did know once I got there and I could have come home. It seemed a bit hypocritical, but I went anyway. I just sat at the back, while some of the married women in my group, went up on stage, straddled the stripper, took their wedding rings off, etc etc. That made me think that I wasn't so worried about DP being present in a large room where women were stripping, it was how he behaved and the interaction that would bother me. Hence why I was more upset about the topless women in the apartment than the ones in the strip club. FWIW I believe he would have behaved in a similar way to me in his situation. But his friend having that lap dance upset me, and made me think you can't trust any man, even the ones who seem nice and like they really love their partners.

Now he has his DB's stag party coming up. It's in the city where we live, but some people will be coming from elsewhere so there will be an apartment rented again. He has said he will tell the truth about it this time. He has admitted that the best man is planning something to do with strippers but nothing is booked in yet. I'm already feeling upset about it already and I just don't want him to be around strippers at all. WIBU to say, if that is happening, I don't want you to go at all?

OP posts:
SomethingOnce · 13/02/2013 16:10

Then maybe dump him for a less misogynist chap.

FreudiansSlipper · 13/02/2013 16:18

because the more we accept the objectification of women in our society the more men in particular young men will see this as the norm the more women will be treated as just sexual objects who can be grabbed, touched and so on

25 years ago men who went to lap dancing bars and strip clubs were seen as being seedy (some stag/hen parties strippers may have been involved) now it's just a bit of fun

can you not see the connection?

BelaLugosisShed · 13/02/2013 16:24

One in every four women and girls experience sexual assault - one in four.

There was a massive thread a while back - called small sexual assaults iirc, hundreds of women telling of their experiences

Women, on the whole ( it may happen somewhere?) do not buy Lap dances from male strippers, they do not sit there, slack jawed and glazed eyed, while a young man strips naked and simulates sexual activity in front of her, he doesn't have to masturbate or pull apart his buttocks so she can get a better view and he doesn't risk being penetrated by her fingers.

Domjolly, every healthy relationship should have boundaries for acceptable behaviour, it's not a bad thing to expect high standards for your partner and it's not unreasonable to ask your partner not to participate in things you find morally wrong or personally distressing - it's not "controlling" to demand respect - a man going to a strip club against his partner's wishes and beliefs, is not showing respect.

MarilynValentine · 13/02/2013 16:26

delboy and DomJolly do you have DDs? Would you be happy to have a daughter working as a stripper?

Were your mums strippers?

Just wondering where you stand on people you love doing it.

seeker · 13/02/2013 16:29

So do you feel that ht men who's use strip clubs and lap dancing clubs are fine upstanding citizens? Happy for your son to be a "client" ? Would you to alone with him? How would you feel if you went to a club and one of the dancers was your daughter? Or your mother? Alll fine with that?

I will be amazed if you answer!

garlicblocks · 13/02/2013 16:44

The mum of most posters on here would be about my age. Had she been a stripper, her act would have comprised taking off a costume - stripping, nothing else - on a stage. There would have been no one-to-one contact.

By the mid-seventies, some places expected their strippers to do 'sexy' stuff on stage; this would usually have been something like winding a scarf between her legs or some minor acrobatics. You certainly never got a look up her fanny and the dancers were still on a stage, not an individual table or a punter's body. Strip pubs made an appearance around that time, too - dancers went topless amongst the customers to collect tips and there was much outrage that some customers tried to cop a feel. The shows, however, still took place on stage.

Now we get reviews on general interest sites like Viewlondon, with men advising customers on which dancer at Spearmint Rhino allows "a naughty feel against the rules" and warn against Windmill dancers pushing the customers to buy sex services. (Those are two of the poshest clubs, btw.)

My point is that the consumerisation of women's bodies has gone a very long way in a relatively short time. Lap dancing as entertainment would have been unthinkable when I first got married. Now look how many posters view it as ordinary!

If you have daughters, you really should be thinking about where attitudes like this are leading.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 13/02/2013 16:44

"They will never see it as the same because as far as feminists are concerned women have it so much worse then men."

That's because men DON'T have it as bad as women.

Just tell me how long women have been raping and oppressing men for and I'll shut up with the "intellectual debate".

Makes me fucking wonder what goes on in the minds of women that are so determined to deny that women are oppressed and shabbily treated in comparison to the men that they're so hell-bent on defending.

Latara · 13/02/2013 16:58

You need to trust your partner & let him go to the party - i've seen male strippers; & also female strippers have turned up at bars i've been in - no-one, male or female touches the strippers unless they choose to.

If you don't feel you can trust your partner around strippers - then how do you trust him at clubs / bars / with female friends??

jarviscocker · 13/02/2013 17:06

I worked in a lap dancing club for three years. I loved working there, made good money and ultimately funded my Phd through it.

What does feminism say about women having a choice to decide what they want to do with their lives? Or must we now be told what to do by so called 'feminists' as opposed to men? I made a well informed choice to work as a lap dancer. I earned much more money per hour than I ever could have hoped to in a different job at that point in my life - it gave me more time to focus on my study, and if I'm honest was much more enjoyable than what I do now!

MarmaladeTwatkins · 13/02/2013 17:10

"I worked in a lap dancing club for three years. I loved working there, made good money and ultimately funded my Phd through it."

Of course you did, dear.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 13/02/2013 17:11

"if I'm honest was much more enjoyable than what I do now!"

Well, why not go back to it if it's such a great career and pays so well? What's stopping you?

FreudiansSlipper · 13/02/2013 17:11

really Jarvis then you must also be aware of the exploitation some women suffer in this industry

FreudiansSlipper · 13/02/2013 17:13

is that not also a line that works well with clients, single parent, in debt, drug habit does not sound so appealing puts men off

MarmaladeTwatkins · 13/02/2013 17:15

I heard that too, Freudian. On the BBC documentary about LDCs. Strippers are told to spin that line to "clients", lest the truth put them off parting with their reddies/forces them to examine their conscience.

garlicblocks · 13/02/2013 17:16

If you don't feel you can trust your partner around strippers - then how do you trust him at clubs / bars / with female friends??

Hahahahahah! Grin

Maybe your female friends slither naked over other people's husbands' bodies, pop their nipples in the men's mouths and bend over to get their vaginas in the men's faces. Maybe you need new friends. And possibly a husband who doesn't encourage that behaviour in his female friends.

SomethingOnce · 13/02/2013 17:19

So, Jarvis, it sounds like the Phd really paid off...

MarmaladeTwatkins · 13/02/2013 17:22

"So, Jarvis, it sounds like the Phd really paid off..."

Bwah ha ha ha ha ha! Grin

delboysfileofax · 13/02/2013 17:25

So strip clubs = objectivication of women=sexual assaults?

Ok so what about a country where strip clubs are illegal. Are there no sexual assaults in Saudi then? That place must be a feminist utopia.

In response to the question would I want my daughter to work in one? (hypothetical as I have a son) Wouldnt bother me. Of course I would prefer my child to have a better job but I wouldnt want them to work in kfc either. But then again I believe in freedom of choice

MarmaladeTwatkins · 13/02/2013 17:31

"
Ok so what about a country where strip clubs are illegal. Are there no sexual assaults in Saudi then? That place must be a feminist utopia"

Stop being ridiculous. LDCs aren't the only trigger that lead to sexual assaults.

Porn is another. Being in the vicinity of a woman is another. There are many.

So you'd have no problem with your (hypothetical) daughter getting fingered in a booth by a stag party, or being offered £15 for a blow job, or being verbally assaulted by punters for putting on a pound or two? Wow. Probably a good job you don't have a daughter because I'm not sure what kind of compass you'd be providing her with.

FreudiansSlipper · 13/02/2013 17:33

Of course there will still be sexual assaults

but when I fist went clubbing 20 odd years ago I may have had the occasional pinch on my bum now I hear of women having their boobs grabbed hands up skirts is that progress?

and really why pick Saudi we know how women are treated there why not look to a country like iceland

delboysfileofax · 13/02/2013 17:36

ok Saudi doesnt have porn either so thats two of your "triggers" gone. So if they make no difference surely they could just as easy stay. Difference is you dont like them.

Hmmm "fingered in a booth" when does that happen then? How many strip clubs have you been in where that happens?

FreudiansSlipper · 13/02/2013 17:38

Obvioulsy not at the nice establishments you have worked at Hmm

Must warn co workers theses women are liars .....

BelaLugosisShed · 13/02/2013 17:39

You think that places like Saudi have no sex industry? [shocked] Naive much?

delboysfileofax · 13/02/2013 17:39

Yes freudian- its definately got worse 100%, absolute nothing to suggest it has to do with strip clubs though.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 13/02/2013 17:41

Why don't you try reading a few books, written by strippers who've got out of the industry? You're most likely to get an honest view of what really goes on in a LDC from these women, than the sugared versions you get from watching stupid programmes like Bell Du Jour or reading twatty articles in Cosmo.