to think that the further you are from the world of work, the crazier being a working mum sounds?

[StripeyBear]

I did it for 3 years - motherhood and a (part-time, but) demanding job... when you were always running from pillar to post, and buying take-away pizza, and feeling guilty because your child was crying when you left, and always being tired and hassled and answering your blackberry on your days "off" and being f**ked off because your job wasn't half as interesting as the work you used to get when you were childless and in the office full-time-plus....

Almost 2 years of being a SAHM later, my working-mother-friends come round for coffee on their day off and moan about all of the above.. It sounds familiar, but now even their moaning exhausts me. I'm more in a swapping recipes for lemon-drizzle-cake and making my own pizza dough sort of head space. These days I just potter around - my whole life has slowed down.....

Don't get me wrong - I realise I'm fortunate that we can manage without the wage (and not everyone can), but I find I am barely worse off (once the childcare is taken into account, and it is so much easier to spend money wisely, now that I don't have to buy crappy pizza because I am too exhausted to cook or book my holiday at the last minute because I wasn't organised earlier). And life feels so much better now that I'm not always exhausted... and I actually have time to do interesting stuff like read (grown-up) books... and there is no stress around childcare and the like....

So when my friends come round and moan about their blackberries ringing and being side-lined for promotions and feeling stressed about organising a child's birthday party when they have no time to really do it and so on.... instead of feeling oodles of sympathy... all I can think is... WHY? WHY? Why are you doing it then?

AIBU? I sort of suspect I might be

Sorry it has wound you up so much Spero

Janey68 I'm sorry you don't feel that is an intelligent contribution to the debate. Go google early years, nurseries, under 3 research - it if you don't believe me - there is a growing body of evidence that nursery is detrimental to children under 3 - there was a huge meta study paid for my gov through SureStart around 2007/8 that came out with scary results...

People make different choices and families have different option to them to choose from - but whilst there is no point in pretending that taking a 5 year break to be a SAHM doesn't harm your professional status or employability, equally there is no point in pretending that nurseries are "good" for babies and under 3s.

Another working mum here who doesn't recognise working mums from your post. At times my job is challenging and at times I am on my blackberry on my day off but I love having a career, I love knowing that I have another 30 years to work and have a proper career to do it in and I love that I am not reliant on my husband for money. We have lots of family time, I have all this weeks meals cooked and frozen but I never swap cake recipes, I don't like cake. SAHM is fine for a bit, I tried it twice but it's not for me.

If you genuinely believe that research, why do you think it's only mothers who should stay at home and not fathers then? I appreciate you don't know any SAHDs and less still single SAHDs. But would you berate a single or widowed dad for going to work and putting his child in a nursery, or is this guilt-trip only reserved for women and mothers?

The point is Stripey I dont see an intelligent debate about nursery care but a nasty dig at anyone who parents differently to you.

You seem unable to comprehend that other parents circumstances/needs/lifestyles are different to yours .

If my friends came round and were stressed,upset or tired about any aspect of their lives whether SAHP or WOHP I would make them a cuppa and LISTEN not judge .

I wouldn't berate anyone for anything Badinage I think it is their lives, their children and their choice.

I think the evidence is pretty robust, and I don't know of any reputable research that supports the view that nurseries are good for babies. I meet parents all the time who tell me that they believe they are (that their child will get used to other people; will be better socialised; will learn their letters, has really come on etc), but I have never seen any reputable evidence to support that.

Anyway, I didn't stay at home with my first child - I went back to work, though I didn't use a nursery. I think if you are worried about the research on nurseries (I know a lot of people are not), and you need to go back to work, you might consider family (if available) or a childminder instead. I do believe that (extreme situations aside, eg where there is violence or substance abuse etc) small children are better off being cared for by their parents in the home, but I appreciate that this is often not possible, and that many parents would not want this.

If I can have a political demand, it would have to be more support for women to choose to stay at home with children when they return to work - and not just as an excuse to push poorer women off benefits. Give me the back of an envelop and a few million (not a big budget in national terms) and you could quickly start to scope out some policy levers to help professional women who have taken an extended period out of the labour market back into work - that would be good.

Stripey

If you are refering to the studies that showed raised cortisol in children in childcare, I could write you a very long post on why those studies are very flawed and a long post on cortisol, how it works, what its function is etc

I'm not sure I can be arsed though

'Growing body of evidence' normally means there isn't any actual conclusive empirical evidence yet for what I, the OP, want to be true.

Ah right so you're talking about doing a quick google search stripey and finding 'something' which says nurseries are bad? Thing is, you can google other 'research' which will say the opposite. For a start, Have you not heard of stakeholder bias in research? The research will have been funded by a particular body who are likely to be looking for a particular outcome. Secondly, have you not heard of variables? Everyone needs to function within their own context, which is unique to them. So what you think is 'best' for your children isn't necessarily best for others.

The more you post, the less I recognise about your take on working parents or indeed anything else. My children have always looked to their dad as much as to me. For which I am thankful, because you know, this parenting adventure isn't all about ME: it's about our children and they deserve an equal relationship with both their parents. Not a mother who wants to make herself 'top parent' to meet her own needs

This thread is such obvious twatwankery that I am orrff.

more support for women to choose to stay at home with children when they return to work

I think your sentence has gone wrong somehow here...

Stripey I am a single parent. I have no partner. I have no parents who can help me. I don't have family to step up and my friends almost all work. Funnily enough my damn children expect food on the table and light and heat.

What would you suggest I do if not work?

Coincidentally - and to drag the thread back to lemon drizzle cake nonsense - I have finally got round to reading the Guardian review section and it features a cartoon on 'Baking with Kafka' in which he bakes - you guessed it - lemon drizzle cake.

According to Kafka, when he bakes lemon drizzle: 'I have the true feeling of myself only when I am unbearably unhappy.' So think on, OP.

Or perhaps stripey you're one of those people who after a quick google would say "I wouldn't do anything to my children if studies show it would raise their levels of coritsol"....

Well Idshag I could try that but they might complain. Wee buggers

The nice thing about this thread is meeting like-minded people. Not the OP obvs

I'm with you earlier...I have one DD (after 5 years infertility treatment) and had to go back to work FT when she was 5 months old as exH had lost his job due to redundancy during my mat leave...
DD went to a CM at 15 months when exH retrained at college for a different career - obviously I had to be the breadwinner.
ExH and I separated when DD was 5 and then I had crazy work hours - had a good salary but had to get an evening nanny 3 evenings a week as exH could not be arsed to look after his own DD.
I would dearly love to work PT but not an option in my field - (finance). Had 4 years as a single parent and expensive legal costs re divorce - wiped out my savings. ExH ended up on incapacity benefit for a couple of years so no maintenance for DD - and then was unemployed for another 2 years. Thankfully I did not have to rely on him to feed, clothe and put a roof over DD's head. I also have no family support (both parents dead). Must be great to have the OP's life choices - not much of a choice for me.

Cat girl

Cali - hugs.

And I don't give a shit if they're un-Mnetty or not.

Sorry had to pop back as couldn't let ithaka go unheralded. Think on op!

Cheered me right up that did.