to think that the further you are from the world of work, the crazier being a working mum sounds?

[StripeyBear]

I did it for 3 years - motherhood and a (part-time, but) demanding job... when you were always running from pillar to post, and buying take-away pizza, and feeling guilty because your child was crying when you left, and always being tired and hassled and answering your blackberry on your days "off" and being f**ked off because your job wasn't half as interesting as the work you used to get when you were childless and in the office full-time-plus....

Almost 2 years of being a SAHM later, my working-mother-friends come round for coffee on their day off and moan about all of the above.. It sounds familiar, but now even their moaning exhausts me. I'm more in a swapping recipes for lemon-drizzle-cake and making my own pizza dough sort of head space. These days I just potter around - my whole life has slowed down.....

Don't get me wrong - I realise I'm fortunate that we can manage without the wage (and not everyone can), but I find I am barely worse off (once the childcare is taken into account, and it is so much easier to spend money wisely, now that I don't have to buy crappy pizza because I am too exhausted to cook or book my holiday at the last minute because I wasn't organised earlier). And life feels so much better now that I'm not always exhausted... and I actually have time to do interesting stuff like read (grown-up) books... and there is no stress around childcare and the like....

So when my friends come round and moan about their blackberries ringing and being side-lined for promotions and feeling stressed about organising a child's birthday party when they have no time to really do it and so on.... instead of feeling oodles of sympathy... all I can think is... WHY? WHY? Why are you doing it then?

AIBU? I sort of suspect I might be

Thread up bum eggs are what single mums deserve for easter.

Feminists are just great wherever you findus

Arf at findus

BAD I often wish I was Nigel Slater

Novice, I mean it's a bit of an embarrassment that women freely admit to living the easy life because their partner pays for it, not even because it's the decision they've decided is best for the family, blah blah. I similarly find it embarrassing that so many women want to trade solely on their looks and sex appeal.

The lemon cake image discounts the status of those who do want to work and excel and not be equated as mumsy types who don't need or have the appetite for the big challenges.

Where are you OP? The part that I find most annoying about your post is the assumption working Mothers feel guilty at leaving their children to go to work - speak for yourself. I never have, such a negative and pointless emotion.

I feel pride at earning money in order to bring up my children.

chandellina I think I've got a bit of a girl crush on you

Chandellina, thanks, get it. tbh I don't know anyone where the sahm or sahd is for anything other than family reasons. Or so they say!

OMG (steps gingerly over the bodies) I'm here shesariver Have been out to the leisure pool.. It was great... there were flumes and a wave machine and everything...

I think people are confusing me with Hannah. Was shocked to read up the page that the OP thought this and that... when I hadn't said a dicky bird since page 2.

(coughs politely) Have no problem with WOHM or SAHM tbh - I was just wondering why people choose to do one or other and then moan so fecking much about it. However, on the way back from Coatbridge, DH has pointed out that when I was a WOHM I moaned all the fecking time. So I'm afraid, it is unequivocal. I ABVU

I am a FT working mum, I'd prefer PT but due to DH's redundancy last year I am sole breadwinner.

I couldn't care less about what anybody else thinks about my choices. This works for us, but I am entitled to have a whinge about work or home life whenever I want. Life is not always a bunch of roses!

FWIW, I couldn't be a SAHM. I love my children, but all day every day with them does my swede in . I need some time out. Maybe though, this is because when all your friends are in the same situation as you (so all SAHM) all you seem to talk about is kids and sorting them out - at least at work I can have other conversations as well!

Because I'm a single parent and I have an ounce of self respect don't believe in sponging off the state by having my part time wage subsidised.

Make cake, drizzle lemon on it, that drizzle shizzle rocks.

Stripes you weren't shagging in the pool today we're you?

Well I'm currently on maternity leave with DC3 from the job I love and I am going insane. DH has morphed from being great and understanding how crap being at home can be (because we normally both work PT but he has gone back to FT for this year) to a moaning minny who blames me for everything that he doeesn't like in the house and I am obsessing over minor things because there is nothing but home in my life at the moment. I need to work, I need to pee by myself, I need to be respected and have intellectually challenging work (I'm a scientist).

I am generally very anti-SAHP though, I think it is far better for children to have parents who share the childcare equally. DH and I parent in different ways and that can only be good for the kids, it is certainly fantastic for the girls to have such a positive male role model in their lives. I am blessed though, when I was pregnant with DS and exhausted I would sleep all weekend and come down at teatime to find he'd made homemade pizzas with the girls for tea after making rockets out of cardboard boxes all afternoon. Not that I'm boasting about my wonderful DH at all, oh no.

I'm sure I read somewhere that there have been studies done on the children of lesbian and gay couples in America and generally those children do much better than the children of more traditional couples. The reason is thought to be because there are no obvious gender splits both parents tend to be more involved in the parenting of the children (as opposed to some fathers married to SAHM thinking they can leave the kids up to their wives).

I work ft and always make my own pizza dough (and bread for that matter). Takes 5 minutes to put ingredients in bread machine. Holidays are booked months and months in advance. None of these things are particularly time consuming so just for that Yabu.

I do miss 'me' time as social life tends to include kids, house can be a bit of a disaster at times and not as clean as I'd like but hey ho, can't have everything.

YABU to assume your own experiences are reflective of every mum.
However, I do kind of get what you said about mums who try to do everything a d burn themselves out.
I have a friend who I went to Uni with. She is very successful in her career and works long hours, has a two year old daughter. She also does a lot of networking, is a social butterfly and now wants another degree - but she is really unhappy. She is very stressed, feels torn every which way - but insists on taking on extra things and striving for perfection. THAT seems crazy to me.
I work three days a week, my DH works full time nights, we have two kids and have found a balance which works for us but others might hate it. Such is life.

Oh stop saying fecking OP. Spit it out.

And if I'm not,wrong, the premise if this thread is you having a moan.

I stopped reading halfway through... I cannot believe the sexism of some one poster. It makes me very, very angry.

OP your post is smug, offensive and you just crapped all over single mothers.

Stripeybear, I almost wept reading your OP. I would give anything right now to be in your privileged position. I am a single mum working flat out, self-employed, DCs solely reliant on my income. Recently collapsed at home with pneumonia and full blown 'flu. Only able to take off 4 days sick, despite barely being able to get out of bed. Still needed to do school runs and shop for DCs and now back full on working. though still very ill.

I would LOVE to be in your position. The house is filthy and a complete tip. I have an enormous backlog of work undone for the business. Had already cared for DC1 through his own virus the week before my own, with him off school AND me trying to work, between looking after him.

Our lives, OP, are poles apart. You talked about, 'booking my holiday at the last minute', when you were working. Some of us have never been able to take a holiday at all! You talked about 'pottering round' nowadays and this really did make me weep. I would LOVE to be pottering round right now. I still feel incredibly ill - fortunately only been this sick about 3 times since I had my DCs.

If the DCs get some food today, that's my main aim. It won't be home-cooked. It won't be a lemon drizzle cake. It may well be pizza. I've never ever had time to cook from scratch or make a cake since DCs were born and have always done everything absolutely alone.

I seem to be surrounded by women exactly like you. They not only have OHs but also family, mums, other people they call on in times of need. I don't have time to cultivate friendships with them or have them round for coffee. I'm always always working. Parents are dead. Illness has tipped things into a whole different category of 'challenging', so I do admit I'm reading you post at a particularly hard time but it really got to me!

I think perhaps you can't have any conception at all of the life of a single parent who has no back-up support or alternative source of income. I would however, echo what others have said or implied about the danger of what would happen, in your set up, should your OH leave you and you get no maintenance and then have to fend for yourself. That seem to me to be the vulnerability in your 'system'.

My strength is that I'm wholly self-sufficient and rely on no one to 'bring home the bacon'. I won't be baking cakes or having coffee mornings but I will never be left high and dry with no career or earning power oneday, should my OH dump me. (I don't mean to imply that your OH would ever dump you but I do know that it can happen).

My vulnerability is that we're all reliant on me alone and so I can't be ill. I can't take time off to potter around or book a holiday. So when I AM ill, everything falls into chaos....hence my emotional response to your post and my 'envy' - but just for today I hope - of your privileged life.

Hi Worried

I'm so sorry you're having such a tough time. I was really directing my moan (I have admitted I was moaning - sorry!) at parents who are in the position to choose whether to work or not - and I do realise that is of itself an extremely fortunate position to be in.

For me, the measure of a good parent is one who has does the best they can for their children in the context of their particular circumstances. I remember being in Africa and meeting mothers who would try and treat their children's malaria at home, knowing they might die, because the expense of medicine that would certainly save their lives had such an adverse affect on the family budget. Who can judge them or anyone else, when they are only doing their best? If feeding your children food you didn't make from scratch is what you can manage today - then they are loved and fed.

I'm sorry you're feeling isolated and unsupported. My suspicion is that other people are a little bit shit about stepping into help. I hope things improve. Incidentally, from reading between the lines, there are parts of your life that you take for granted, I'm sure, that I envy hugely - just sayin' as it is easy to look at others and think it is all easy for them.

Had a quick flick through the thread - think it was Spero and others who mentioned employability, and just wanted to comment on that.

I think the crux for me is that I always imagined that the feminist project together with better education and career opportunities would create choices for women - instead, what we seems to have achieved is a cadre of well qualified, able women, who are terrified to stay at home with their kids less they lose their market position. I'm not saying all women want to stay at home with children - I know that is not the case - and if you're happy being a working mother and enjoy juggling kids and a rewarding job, well that is fantastic - I'm talking about women who would like to slow down and be at home when the kids are young, but feel it is risky, and that they will never get their career back where it was

In the end, whilst mindful of the horrors of being completely unemployable later, I desperately wanted to be the person who looked after my baby, and I felt the risk was worth taking to do that. In fairness, our personal situation is reasonable - our mortgage is nearly paid (I paid half, didn't have a rich husband or an inheritance before you ask/judge), I have some pension provision already and so forth. I also set aside £10k of a redundancy pay out for retraining, as I thought I might need to do another masters or some other professional training before going back to work.

I do wonder if mothers have got too bound up in the idea that taking a few years out of the workplace will mean they can never do a meaningful, well-paid or interesting job again. It just feels like a lot of this thread boils down to scaremongering.

So, yes, I am more financially vulnerable than my husband - but we are married, I would be protected to some degree in a divorce, and he is also in a scary position - as a SAHP I can leave him and swan off with his DC and a big chunk of the assets. Doesn't' it come down to - you picked your husband to father your kids - at some point you have to trust that things will work out well, not the worst case scenario.

Work is only one aspect of our lives (an important one) but should it be the most important. Who knows how the labour market will be in 5 years plus time when I fancy another job? Maybe it will be harsh, and I'll be grubbing about for the most menial job - who knows? However, I'm mindful of my lovely friend who kept plugging away at a job she didn't need or like, only to be made redundant the week after her youngest started school. Children are an absolute - they need us so intensely for a blink of an eye. I just wish that being a SAHP for a period of time when children are young was accepted as a valid choice, which people could cheerfully support. Some of the comments on this thread taste an awful lot like sour grapes

Stripey I felt like you. I was wrong. Well protected in case of a divorce does not exist. It just doesn't.

Louisianablue (or anyone else if they know) - I am REALLY interested in that research you mentioned, about how same sex parents share parenting. If you can remember where you came across that, I'd be really grateful if you could tell me!

worried345, you are under a huge amount of pressure. I think your point about just not having time to build a support network of other parents is very important.

I do sometimes hear women (whether it is intentional or not) almost 'blaming' other mothers for finding working with children hard. Apart from the fact that it takes a lot of effort to truly understand what someone else's situation is - there is often an implication that we only find it hard because we MAKE it hard for ourselves. By trying to be 'perfect', do too much etc etc, especially at home. 'Well, if you WILL have a Cath Kidston-perfect spotless Stepford Wives cupcakes life then of course you'll find it hard!' they trill.

I've had this from women who have NO FUCKING IDEA what my life or house is like! I'm not a single mum, but have found it exhausting and at times miserable trying to be a working mum (and I'd say on balance that I enjoy my job). Keeping on top of the absolutely bare minimum (wash clothes, buy milk, get food in house, put food in front of dcs) can be hard if you are working a lot - and your partner is too. Obviously for worried and other single mums - with no support - it is likely to be even harder.

It may be your perception that some of the comments are 'sour grapes'. If I was in a shittier frame of mind I would suggest some of yours are 'wishful thinking'.

People will do what they have to do, what they think is the best thing for their families. End of story.

Everything else is just window dressing.

You want to stay at home? Awesome.
Someone else wants to go to out to work? Great.

Lots of people work/don't work because their choices have been limited by circumstances. Threads like this are horrible for that very reason.