Re OH's attitude to MIL, I need some outside perspective (sorry it's v v long)

[Bearmonkeysmum]

Apologies for another MIL related threat but I have no one rl to talk to about this. Bit of backstory first to hopefully shed a bit more light on the situation.

My MIL is generally ok and although we are very different people we have always gotten on reasonably well. My OH is a but of a mummy's boy & has always said MIL comes first in his life until we have DCs when it will be me & them. Oh & mil always spent a lot of time together before we got together (tea together at least once a week, shopping etc) & since moving in together I have encouraged oh to sometimes go without me as I know how much mil likes this (we do go as a family too).

In the last 18 months we have gotten engaged, found out I was pg a few days after engagement & had our lovely ds. MIL is very funny about people finding out things before her, people being more involved in stuff than she is & not behaving in a way she sees as appropriate (although this wasn't apparent before all this). Oh supports this & is very funny about mil being equal in everything with my mum. Oh is very squeamish so I had said I wanted him in labour room & my mum on standby if he was struggling (not definitely in the room but just as backup for him). Initially he was fine but later said that my mum wasn't coming in if his couldn't. We had a massive row about it but eventually he saw my pov & was ok with it (mil not, overheard her moaning to him about it when she thought I wasn't in).

In the first 4mths of ds life it was like oh was logging every minute of time my mum spent with ds to make sure she wasn't getting more time than mil. Making lots of comments like your mums been 2x this week so mil will have to come 4x next week to make up (she was on holiday at the time & my mum had literally popped in with gifts from family abroad & a pint of milk). The keeping score thing has eased off a little since then but not much.

What has really brought it all to a head for me was christmas (I know it was a while back). I'm on smp& had saved money for Xmas gifts, so had a set budget for everyone. Oh then decides to spend more of his own money on mil (fair enough, his cash) & spent most of December going on about getting mil a special charm from the baby as he thinks as grandma she should get something nice. I said it was a lovely idea but that I couldn't afford to do anything similar for my mum although she would love something like that. Come Xmas day & after we've exchanged gifts, oh decides to make a big show oh giving mil her gift from ds (everyone else's gifts were labelled from us as a family) & really laying on thick how we thought she should get a special gift from the baby. My poor mum is sitting there smiling while mil & oh are in raptures. I could tell she was upset but she didn't say anything. I was very upset (still am tbh, hence posting here). Oh didn't get me anything from ds (I didn't expect anything) but when he saw that he realised he had stuff from ds, he quickly pointed to one of his presents to me (that I had already opened & he had said were from him) & said "oh btw, that was from ds".

Aibu to want to say actually your everything has to equal rule is bs & I'm really pissed off?

There are other things that have lead to me feeling like this but you would be losing days of your life reading them.

I love my oh, he is a great dad & fiancé but I can't shake the upset tat this causes me. I've got horrendous pmt at the moment & I don't think it's helping. I am probably overreacting here but because I'm so emotional about it all I don't feel like I can look at it objectively.

I would like your perspective please mners, I can't talk to oh as he always thinks I am attacking mil & won't listen.

Thanks & well done if you got this far.

X

Bloody hell OP, how can you live like this? YADNBU! Tell him how it's going to be from now on and if he dares have a go at you tell him to fuck off back to Mummy.

Everything is NOT equal - as was proved at Xmas with his disgusting display of hurtful bad manners (towards your mum) and complete insensitivity (towards you) over his insistence that MIL was given a "special" present from the baby ? Why ? ..... what had she done to deserve that, apart from being worshipped by her adoring son ? Leaving aside the issue of whether or not you pooled money for Xmas expenses (which is another discussion) his stated intention to "spend a bit more" on his mother should have equated to a larger bottle of perfume, or another book or a box of nice chocs. What he did instead was to make it all about a very public display about WHO is the most IMPORTANT grandmother, and, even more worryingly, WHO is the MOST important woman in his life. And that's not an interpretation of what happened - that is a description of his gesture and attitude as you yourself explained what a big show he made of it all.

I'm sorry to be blunt but I actually find this level of adoration and favouritism from a grown child towards a parent - when that "child" is supposed to be in an adult relationship themselves rather creepy. People like that may acquire partners but they act almost as if they're doing you a favour by letting you into the periphary of their lives and make no bones about the fact that mummy (usually) will always remain No. 1. You said he promised that when you had DCs together his mother would be pushed down the pecking order by you and the children .... well, that doesn't seem to have happened does it ? You should never have had to have a big row about the delivery room - how dare he dictate who the labouring mother has in the room with her ? And at Xmas, as others have said, if any "big show" was to be made of a "special" present "from the baby" it should have been "from the baby" to the baby's mother ! I'm afraid I get the impression that you are viewed somewhat as a brood mare .... useful for doing the thing - providing children/grandchildren - that your DP and his mother can't do for themselves but not given any respect or consideration for that.

Look OP I don't want to upset you but as others have suggested I'd hold off marrying him until you were 101% confident that he was actually capable of putting you and your children first. That doesn't mean he has to ignore his mother but no way should he be playing these insulting games of one upmanship. I endured a very short lived marriage (no kids thank god) to a mummy's boy and no way did I come first even after we married. His mother manipulated left right and centre but of course he could have said no to her on the many occasions he was called out at ridiculous o'clock (disrupting our plans/sleep) over some alleged emergency which turned out to be something as stupid as her setting her answerphone (and this was often when she knew we had plans), he could have put her in her place when she had less than flattering things to say about me as a single mother (who'd always worked, got 1st class degree as mature student etc) but dismissed her bigotry as her "age", he could have moved when she used to literally run in front of me to sit next to him at family gatherings and, the icing on the cake, he could have stood up for his marriage and his wife when she changed the terms of her will shortly after we wed (though I didn't find out about this until much later) but instead he suddenly made life so awful for me and my child that I felt I had no choice to leave because, basically, it seemed his mother's will (both figuratively and legal document speaking) was more important to him than me. Anyway .... guess what I'm saying is that I do have some experience of this sort of thing, and, like you, I tried to be understanding and sympathetic, and inclusive of the woman (who played the "poor widow" line to its upmost - there was nothing poor about her in any sense of the word) when I saw how close my ex was to her but at best I got an icy politeness. It was near impossible to have an objective discussion about her as my ex was so protective of her - though how much that was genuine love and how much was fear of him losing his precious inheritence I don't know. Either way the end result was the same ..... it's horribly insulting to feel your husband always put someone else first regardless of circumstances and I'm not sure I could have changed that. I think unhealthy relationships like these are formed in childhood and that's a lot of unravelling to do. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses rather than condemn yourself to a lifetime of 2nd best but obviously I hope you can sort this out as you have a child. I also feel very angry at the women who encourage this sort of divisive behaviour in their grown sons - they should have the good grace to butt out and let them establish independent lives. Had my son pulled something like that in front of (hypothetically speaking) my DIL's mum I would have felt mortified and would have let him know in no uncertain terms how wrong it was as soon as I could speak to him on my own. I rather get the impression that your MIL did no such thing and would have probably revelled in her role as Queen Bee. Make no mistake, she'd have known how insulting this was for you and your mum.

Write down the order of importance that Holly mentioned further upthread and staple it to his arse repeat until he gets the message. Your MIl needs to realise that she is not the most important person in his life anymore!
Yes they went through bad times and he is a terrific son to be supporting his Mum, any good person would do the same but this is too far. Way to far above and over what a healthy relationship should be.
My MIL tries to be the same, DH is one of 3 Brothers, a stereotypical middle child/black sheep who married a woman equally as stubborn as his mother (me!) so we have a fairly normal relationship with her but it was bloody hard going for a while! Her relationship with her other sons and their families makes me shudder. She'sthere all the time, trying to take over, going as far as trying to get the children to call her mummy when they were small. Fortunately DH supported detaching for a while and seeing her on our terms and raising our children our own way with miminal interference.
YANBU, not over reacting at all and if it's PMT then its obviously done you a favour in getting this to the surface for you so you can start to work on it x

I agree with this:

"He is a fantastic son, mediocre father, poor husband and dreadful son in law."

He treats you terribly and your mother even worse.

Do you really feel like you come first in his life now that you have had a child with him? Cos it doesn't look like it.

I wouldn't marry anyone who still saw life as the sort of ludicrous competition that most people grow out of before they leave primary school. He is enabling his mother to behave in an ever more precious, controlling and unreasonable manner. Life isn't equal, as it happens and you certainly don't achieve this state of affairs by keeping scores.

I say this as a mother of sons and a MIL. I can't imagine making either of my ddils feel like you do right now. In fact, I'd hope that my sons would step up to the plate and have an exceedingly robust discussion with me if I demonstrated a fraction of this ridiculous behaviour.

"has always said MIL comes first in his life until we have DCs when it will be me & them."

what a wanker

OP, if your mum is sane, I don't think she would really want you to find a lovely gift to her from her infant son. Infants can't give gifts. However, you could do something like give her a gift of a framed photograph of the baby in a frame that says "World's Greatest Grandma."

In future, whenever both GM's are together, be sure to present your mum with something that says "Number One GM" or "World's Best Nan" or similar.
Hah!

OP hasn't been back and is probably at the comments. OP...come back and let us know you feel ok....I suspect you are a bit shocked at the reactions here.

My FIL is quite similar to your MIL, im just lucky OH doesnt go along with it (well not all the time anyway)

"has always said MIL comes first in his life until we have DCs when it will be me & them."

im sorry but thats not acceptable. you need to sit down with him and tell him how you are feeling. EXACTLY how you are feeling. he needs to see things from your point of view, and hopefully then he will understand.

That's actually creepy.

I fear that with that level of immaturity he's beyond even talking to about it.

"OP hasn't been back and is probably at the comments. OP...come back and let us know you feel ok....I suspect you are a bit shocked at the reactions here."

Good point, but hopefully OP understands that people aren't judging her, just outraged on her behalf. Her DP should read this thread, that might be a good wake up call on how impartial people view his attitude towards his DP and DS.

Oh dear god! That is appalling! Yes I find it creepy too. The my mother comes first bit and her wanting to be in at the birth, no no no. Just so wrong! I dont know if he can be "fixed" but I definately would not marry him. Please take care and let us know how the talk went.

OP, there is such a thing as Emotional Incest, or Covert Incest, as it is sometimes called. It's most common between mothers and only sons where the mother is abused in some way by her partner, and she turns to her son to fulfill the role of husband in all ways but in the bedroom. Here's a few buts on it from Wikipedia. It sounds a lot like what you've been describing (I've put the bit I think most pertinent to you in italics):

(MNetters, PLEASE NOTE: I am not inferring that all survivors of domestic abuse do this to their sons!)

"Covert incest was defined in the 1980s as an emotionally abusive relationship between a parent (or stepparent) and child that does not involve incest or sexual intercourse, though it involves similar interpersonal dynamics as a relationship between sexual partners... Problems between parents often facilitate covert incest; as the parents distance themselves from each other both physically and emotionally, one parent may begin focusing on his/her child. The child becomes the surrogate partner and source of emotional support for the parent The abusing parent may also be afraid or unable to meet their needs through a relationship with another adult...
Covert incest occurs when a parent is unable or unwilling to maintain a relationship with another adult and forces the emotional role of a spouse onto their child instead. The child's needs are ignored and instead the relationship exists solely to meet the needs of the parent and the adult may not be aware of the issues created by their actions."

Whether it's emotional incest or not, it is totally FUCKED-UP. Miggsie was spot-on with her assessment of the situation and your future. As time goes on, he will become and abuser of you and your child, as your rightful needs and lives will threaten the creepily over-intense and smothering fixation he has with his mother. He will require years of intense psychotherapy to get over such an intense dysfunction... If he actually wants help for it, which it sounds like he doesn't.

He's going to totally mess up your son too - from your Oh's behaviour and actions, he will receive the very confusing messages that A) sons should totally worship their mothers to the exclusion of everything and everyone else BUT YET B) Your mother comes last in my life, she's just there to facilitate my lifestyle, like a skivvy or a mere appliance. It'll create a different, but equally troubling disorder in your son, getting such messed-up messages about mothers and wives.

I can't see a happy future for you as a family at all, sorry.

I'm with 'catsmother' on this one.
Sorry, but you should no way ever be 2nd best.
You deserve to be loved and cherished and looked after. You should be his princess and he should be falling over himself to make you feel good about yourself after you've just had a baby.
Read the responses and have a long hard think about things.
Things will NOT get better. They don't seem to have improved since your ds arrived so don't expect them to.
Good luck and do let us know how you are getting on.

agree you should have equal spending money.

Also he doesn't sound very nice, excluding your mum from special gifts and being so pedantic about time.

You only got to come first in his life when you had children?
I'd bail out, tbh. He's never going to cut the apron strings.

Oxford. Fuck its got a name!

Test.

BearMonkey.

I really feel so sorry for you. Because the other posters on this thread telling you it's going to get worse if you just sit back and are complaint are correct

I was in the exact position you describe however all my family live abroad except for one sibling who is miles away and my PIL but especially my MIL took great exception to me and systematically were emotionally abusive towards me. My first dc's birth was terribly traumatic also.

My dh is a sweet man but was conditioned by his parents. And he couldn't see anything wrong. Sadly I slipped further and further into a depression and considered taking my own life it got so bad. When I had my 2nd dc I almost lost my life. I came onto MN and typed away- letting it all spill out.

The relief was amazing. I will never forget the support I got.

I stood my ground, I kicked out my dh. I grew a back bone.

EVERYONE Listened. It took me 9 years such a waste, in that time I've been so ill with the stress of it and I am a tough cookie (you'd never guess because I've hidden it well) It s very sad it took me losing it but my only regret in my life it I didn't do anything sooner. I was a emotional prisoner. I was bullied into so much and didn't realised because they had conditioned me very skilfully.

I hope you will consider these points. I'm not saying things will go this way for you but I can never have those times back again, I will have to live with the regret of losing so much, not being as good a parent as I could have been- I should have taken charge.

Im sorry for the dodgy grammar, school pick up in one minute so I had to get that out quickly!

So sorry OP I am sure that you are overwhelmed with all the responses on this thread but really your DF's relationship with his mum is wierd and unhealthy. What kind of a role model is he to your DS? And really who actually wants to be in the delivery room with their DIL, v bizarre!

Why don't you swap? You give her son back and in return you keep your son as far away from her as possible?

Hello, sorry not replied sooner have been out all day visiting my DF & his wife.

I am shocked but only by the number of responses, thank you everyone for taking the time to read & reply. I'm ok & not upset by the comments, I really appreciate the honesty & even the bluntness, believe it or not it is how I am with my friends/some family most of the time but I seem to have lost my way in this situation.

I am going to deal with this & I am going to make it clear that I will not put up with being someone's afterthought. I'm going to suggest the counselling (I'm a fan of counselling, had it a few times over the years & benefited from it a lot). We are going out or dinner tomorrow just the two of us, so will talk then.

Off to feed ds now but will be back later to answer your questions etc.

Thank you all again for your responses x

You do need to deal with it asap as it will become a very lonely place to be to come last in the line after his family and your children. Been there and done that and got rid x

Once you've addressed the problem, and come to think of something for your DM - please consider making something for her. It won't cost you much but will be so much more meaningful - something with hand, foot, finger prints (tote bag, prints in a frame, on a cushion cover or something) and/or a photo gift (keyring, mug, calendar etc) - or pinterest is great for ideas.

Also think of something like these poems to go with.

And your H can bugger off if he thinks MIL is getting the same - she's got a bracelet, hasn't she?