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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to ttc if I think I will abort if the HG sets in again?

506 replies

ICBINEG · 04/02/2013 17:26

So DH and I have conceived immediately on two occasions, one early miscarriage and one birth. I had hideous soul destroying sickness almost all of the way through pregnancy. We are beginning to start thinking about having another child, but I feel almost certain I couldn't go through another pregnancy like the last one. My understanding of HG is that it is unlikely to strike twice (although you are slightly more likely to get it if you had it before) and that each pregnancy may be fine or not.

So is it unreasonable to ttc if I think I might abort due to HG?

If we conceive and then I get horribly sick is it unreasonable to abort and try again?

Given we would only ever have one more child and seem to be able to conceive at will this might be more a case of choosing to bring to term the baby that doesn't make me horrendously sick for 9 months rather than wasting life etc.

I'm not sure I can really buy into that argument though....

(ps. if you are of the never abort under any circumstances camp then please don't bother posting...I know that opinion exists and am not in the slightest bit swayed by it. I am interested in hearing from other with grey zone opinions on abortion as to which side of their personal line this falls).

OP posts:
StuntGirl · 05/02/2013 20:10

Icbineg, I'm so glad you've found this thread helpful.

FWIW, I'm 100% pro-choice and would respect your decision to abort regardless of the reason, no strings or restrictions attached.

That said the further the thread went along the more it became apparent that you're not emotionally or mentally in the right place to conceive again at the moment given the risks. I'm so sorry you were affected so badly by pregnancy and so sorry counselling hasn't helped.

I hope you can discuss this openly with your husband and that he is understanding and supportive of the effect this has had and is still having on your life. I wish you all the best Thanks

fridgepants · 05/02/2013 20:47

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the user's request.

ThatVikRinA22 · 05/02/2013 20:57

IC - im so glad you have some clarity and im sorry that some of the posts have been so vitriolic.

Please can i ask you to google something called "rewind" therapy - its for PTSD or trauma and works in one 20 min session. I had it for 8 years of neglect and abuse and in one session it took away the fear and emotional response to remembering that pain.
one session.
it really do honestly truly work - i was such a sceptic! if you want please feel free to pm me and i will give you the low down on how it works. I truly feel you would benefit from this to get you over your obvious trauma at what happened to you.
you sound very pragmatic and sensible - please heal before you go any further.

ICBINEG · 05/02/2013 21:02

s'okay really. I am allowed to say how I view pregnancy and conception and others are allowed to say what they think of that opinion. I'd say what I thought of theirs but there isn't really any point....

That's interesting about the abortion statistics.

On one visit to the hospital I was stuck on a ward with two near term teenagers discussing loudly how morning sickness is ust something you get on with. How it's horrible but you ust need to man up etc....

I think maybe I do feel shit about how it seems to have hit me harder than most. Some of the stories on here are worse than I experienced and yet people did it all again....

Ah well we are who we are.

OP posts:
ICBINEG · 05/02/2013 21:03

vic I will look into that - thanks.

OP posts:
fridgepants · 05/02/2013 21:06

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the user's request.

fridgepants · 05/02/2013 21:09

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ThatVikRinA22 · 05/02/2013 21:15

ic - ive linked how it works for you
here

really do look into it. i know my trauma was different to yours but it takes away that fear and that emotional response when you think of what happened - it was described to me like removing the colour from a picture.

you sound so deeply traumatised about what happened around your pg and your pnd.

im really surprised that more people on this thread didnt pick up on that and just waded in regardless.

AmandaPayne · 05/02/2013 21:27

Oh ICBINEG. I really feel for you.

You cannot predict how you will react to things, and it's not about being tough. It's not one up-manship on who had it worst and got over it fastest.

A very minor example for me is a smear test (bear with me, there is an analogy in here somewhere). I hate them. Even thinking about it now makes me feel all wobbly. I haven't been for about 8 years Blush. Internals in labour were the same. I feel like I am being sliced in two with cheese wire. Total, absolute agony. Worse than any other pain in my life. Other people say 'ooh, it's a bit uncomfortable'. I don't know whether I feel greater pain, but I obviously experience it differently. I know I am not a wuss, because I had a totally pain relief free second birth and I don't know why people make such a fuss about crowning Grin.

What I am trying to say is different people experience different pains in different ways. There is no reason to suppose that one person's experience is the same as another's. Mental response is the same - why should your experience of getting over having HG be the same as another woman's? It's not about being tougher. It's about human being being very complex things.

discrete · 05/02/2013 21:41

I am totally and completely pro life. I feel that what you choose to do with your body is for you to decide and no one else. I am in the 'mother should be allowed to terminate right up to term' camp.

But...I feel that the issue here runs much more deeply than whether or not you get HG.

To me it sounds like you were severely traumatised by the fact that pg put you in a position where you were vulnerable, needed help from other people and could not fend completely by yourself.

I felt very much the same way initially in my pg, although I did not have hg ('merely' horrendous ms, then pgp and spd). It was a huge wake-up call to the reality that human females when they have young are among the most vulnerable beings in the animal kingdom. Human childbearing is unbelievably taxing on the mother, and raising a child, particularly if they are sick in the early days, is very, very difficult without support.

If you are the kind of person who is used to being the one who helps, rather than the one who is helped, it can throw into question your whole personal identity.

The problem is that there are so many aspects of childbearing that can leave you in that state, even if you don't get hg. You may get really bad spd in late pg, when it's too late to have an abortion. Or you may develop a very high risk of early labour and have to spend large amounts of time in bedrest hoping that the baby stays in for just that bit longer to reduce the chance of severe damage. Or you may have a very, very premature baby that requires serious medical intervention and months of sitting in ICU hoping that they pull through. Or you may have a disabled child that requires large amounts of care day and night for years on end.

Unfortunately, the decision of whether or not to ttc has to include consideration of the effects of any of those possibilities. For me, the decision not to ttc no.3 was made when I realised that I would seriously consider terminating for abnormalities, even if they were compatible with life. The reason is that I did not feel that I could conceive a baby on a conditional basis. Otherwise, what would my attitude be if they developed something once they were born?

Sorry, I have written an essay Blush. Could carry on, but will shut up and go away now. Just wanted to finish up by saying how much I respect that you are going through this thought process now, and really trying to examine your feelings rather than mindlessly blundering into something that could have severe repercussions on you and your family. And how calm and balanced you have remained despite some of the stuff spewed on here.

AmandaPayne · 05/02/2013 22:11

I think you mean pro-choice Discrete Unless you are making a point about the language of 'pro life' being used by those who are anti-abortion. Great post though. I totally agree with what you say about how the vulnerability of pregnancy, birth (and early child rearing) can knock you sideways.

EasilyBored · 05/02/2013 22:14

Just going to butt back in to tell Amanda please please please go for a smear test, talk to the nurse about the pain you experience, but please go and have one!

AmandaPayne · 05/02/2013 22:19

I know, I know. I have recently moved and need to register with a GP so am going to organise seeing someone. I think someone new might make it easier to be upfront. Last time I tried to explain and they looked at my notes and said "well, you haven't had any problems in the past". This time I'm going to let go with the fully snotty snivel and see where it gets me. If I could just have gas and air whilst they did it I'd be ok...

I do think it's quite a good example of how something that can seem a little hurdle to lots of people can become insurmountable in your own mind though.

discrete · 05/02/2013 22:43

oh yeah Blush. sorry. Pro choice.

ahem...

differentnameforthis · 05/02/2013 23:40

i think a lot of people posting have no idea of hg

Granted, I did not have HG, but I was throwing up the entire course of my first pregnancy & did have PE, so I do know what it is like to have that hanging over you. Would I have aborted dd2 if I got it again with her, no I wouldn't have, unless my life was in real danger. I took the choice to get pregnant & went it knowing what could happen.

You don't use a pregnancy symptom as an excuse to keep throwing away babies that "make" you sick.

StinkyWicket · 06/02/2013 01:18

OP.

I posted earlier that I think it shows a really weird attitude to be considering it should you get HG again. If you think you wouldn't cope, IMO you shouldn't TTC.

I still stand by what I posted before, but I think your subsequent posts have made things a little clearer for me. Admittedly, I didn't enjoy per se either of my pregnancies, but I didn't have HG or any massive difficulties and didn't have PND either.

I think your post above 'I am very glad they thought the end product made up for process of getting it. But that isn't how I feel at all.' is very telling. I hope you don't mind me saying OP, but I just don't think that you're ready. I would consider abortion, for any condition, but the way you are presenting this as a foregone conclusion makes me think you have not considered the way an abortion/multiple abortions is going to affect you and your DH. Possibly as negatively as HG would. Your experience before is really clouding your judgement.

M0naLisa · 06/02/2013 01:38

I suffered awful sickness in my 3rd pregnancy, it was an accident, I was hospitalized for a week. I aborted due to PND.

I was told I'd get HG again in any subsequent pregnancies I had.

I fell pregnant in march last year and ds3 is 10 weeks old on Friday. I didn't get sick half as bad as I did in last preg. So I think you are b u

MerryCouthyMows · 06/02/2013 02:45

HG tends to be slightly better if you are having a DC with the same father the following time, but is likely to be worse than the time before if your second DC has a different father to your first DC.

You don't have to suffer - there ARE medications now. Metaclopramide helped me, and omneprazole was a wonder drug. Omneprazole was harder to get prescribed - only a consultant can prescribe it, but it works.

I though I would abort any pregnancies after my second DC, as I had spent 19 weeks out of 40 on a drip in hospital with DC2. I fell pregnant when DC2 was just 10 months old. I didn't terminate in the end.

I found it hard going, dealing with HG with a baby under 1yo, and just over, but I coped. Ex had to do most of the housework, as it was enough that I played with DD and DS1.

I then swore never again. 7 years later I had a fourth DC. And suffered with HG. But it wasn't as bad as with DD and DS1, as they had different dads, however, it wasn't as bad as it had been with DS2, because DS2 and DS3 share a dad.

What I'm saying is, don't look to termination as a way of stopping the sickness that you might find work for you.

MerryCouthyMows · 06/02/2013 02:54

KateBeckett - have you ever suffered from HG? It's nothing like 'a bit of pregnancy sickness'.

By 39 weeks with DS1, I was literally in hysterics begging the consultant to induce me and was actually ready to kill myself if he refused. And I'm NOT like that at all.

Your brain and body are so depleted of nutrients, as the tiny amount you do keep down goes towards the baby, leaving you malnourished, that your brain function is impaired because you are basically in starvation mode.

I LOST 3 stone when I was pregnant with DS1. And I was only 8 1/2 stone to start with. By the time I delivered, on my due date, I weighed just 5 1/2 stone.

Even when they were tube feeding me, I was vomiting everything they were putting into me.

Imagine the worst case of food poisoning or stomach bug or gastritis you have ever had, and then multiply the exhaustion by two as you are trying to grow a healthy baby, and then feel like that for 9 months. That pretty much sums up HG.

NOT "a bit of pregnancy sickness".

DS1 was a good weight - he was 7lb7oz, but he was STILL malnourished at that size, and had to spend time in SCBU and had jaundice for nearly 3 weeks because of it.

MerryCouthyMows · 06/02/2013 03:08

With DS1, the reason I was being tube fed through a tube down my nose was because I had vomited so often (30-50 times a day, and one memorable day I vomited 100+ times before passing out in the street as I was trying to GET to the hospital) that I had BURNT AWAY part of the lining of my throat and was pouring with blood every time I vomited.

For everyone saying they wouldn't consider termination for HG, there are different levels of HG, just as one person with CP can be more physically impaired than another.

If the OP's previous experience of HG was like my second, then I can understand it.

I was still vomiting into a bowl the whole way through my labour, with every push, the WHOLE 9 months.

If I'm honest, when I found out I was pg with DC3 so soon after I had had DS1, I actually booked a termination. I went to the appointment but couldn't go through with it.

I hasten to add, we hasn't been actively trying to conceive - in fact quite the opposite, I had a Mirena coil in when I fell pg with DC3. (I was too young to be sterilised on the NHS).

I love DS2 to bits, and the fact that i had had a termination booked does not alter the love i have for him now.

If it helps the OP - none of my other pregnancies were as severe with the HG. DS1 was by far the worst, it was like a living hell.

MammaTJ · 06/02/2013 05:23

I had three miscarriages before having my DD1. With the earlier pregnancies I had not felt sick at all, with her I did, terribly.

I mentioned it to the doctor and he said 'Well that means the hormones are in place to keep the baby'.

Every time I vommed, I thought 'This one is staying'. As someone who has had a MC yourself, you should try to think of sickness as a positive thing in this way. Not making light of it at all but that is the positive side of it.

changeforthebetter · 06/02/2013 06:51

Vehemently pro choice here but also YABU.

pigletmania · 06/02/2013 07:49

I just wouldn't. You will probably get HG again the risk is likely. I could not keep ttc tan ending the life when hg sets in. Either your in it for the long haul or just stick to one

pigletmania · 06/02/2013 07:50

I did mammaj I had miscarriages Wth them I had no morning sickness. With ds and dd I did, I saw vomitting though horrid to be a postive sign

Beveridge · 06/02/2013 08:35

FFS, severe HG is not just a bit of nausea and spewing(referring to recent posters), one of my colleagues had it first pg (not subsequent) and was hospitalised for weeks, she had a horrific time of it.

Other posters have pointed out the long term health problems for the mother that can resultand the impact on the baby in the womb.

I can only speak as a 'ordinary' ms sufferer i.e. the 'continual hangover' but very little actual spewing and I can say that the cumulative effect of that was eye opening for me (who is never ill usually)- I was really struggling with it by the time it passed (week 16 with last pg)and it was really getting me down, and of course the guilt that I wasn't able to feel excited about a much wanted second baby because I had only found out as a result of the nausea didn't help either.

And that was NOTHING compared to HG. I wonder if those people who criticise the OP for daring to explore her thoughts and feelings would be so quick to dismiss her personal experiences of say labour and how that made her feel?

OP, agree with other posters that you should be seeking expert medical advice and counselling before embarking on ttc, as this isnot something you should be trying to troubleshoot on your own.

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