to ttc if I think I will abort if the HG sets in again?

[ICBINEG]

So DH and I have conceived immediately on two occasions, one early miscarriage and one birth. I had hideous soul destroying sickness almost all of the way through pregnancy. We are beginning to start thinking about having another child, but I feel almost certain I couldn't go through another pregnancy like the last one. My understanding of HG is that it is unlikely to strike twice (although you are slightly more likely to get it if you had it before) and that each pregnancy may be fine or not.

So is it unreasonable to ttc if I think I might abort due to HG?

If we conceive and then I get horribly sick is it unreasonable to abort and try again?

Given we would only ever have one more child and seem to be able to conceive at will this might be more a case of choosing to bring to term the baby that doesn't make me horrendously sick for 9 months rather than wasting life etc.

I'm not sure I can really buy into that argument though....

(ps. if you are of the never abort under any circumstances camp then please don't bother posting...I know that opinion exists and am not in the slightest bit swayed by it. I am interested in hearing from other with grey zone opinions on abortion as to which side of their personal line this falls).

In fact I would do anything to prevent another pregnancy, because they are so so bad for me and my children - I'm thinking along the lines of sterilistion, at the moment, but then, I already have enough children and do not feel the need for any more.

I I were younger and had only one, I would feel immense pressure to have more. That's what happened in fact. It's only now, after three, and being nearly 40, that I feel I'm allowed to stop and say, no more.

So really it comes down to having one more go or not. Recurrent aborting is off the table.

ICBINEG did you come to that conclusion after working through the replies on this thread ?

YABVU

You could have a look at that link from Any Fucker too as there are some preventative things mentioned that could reduce the risk a little - vitamins in early pregnancy are good, risk reduces with age (so that means reduces with time !), a higher BMI is good (so maybe consider putting on a little weight ?)

• I think those were the 3 I noticed.

Did you feel any sickness with the pregnancy where you miscarried ? I know you said it was an early m/c ? But if not (and felt less ill then) that could be a little encouraging ?

chub would you please explain (as if talking to an idiot) exactly what the difference is between the two cases?

I genuinely think I don't get it.

Likewise why is it more acceptable to choose the specific egg and sperm you will make a child from than to choose on the basis of how sick the pregnancy is making you? (clearly it would be better from my point of view if I could get eggs/sperm screened for HG potential but I don't think that is possible atm).

Is this just a life has begun and is sacred argument?

IF my beliefs are that life is no more or less present in a fused egg-sperm than in separate sperm and eggs then is there still some reason I should see the two processes differently?

I had HG with both mine, I had 18 years between them and was hospitalised during both pregnancies.. Think about it very carefully, HG is usually a sign of a healthy, secure pregnancy and you could be wasting a chance of a lovely perfect baby. I think that's a tough decision to make and to live with afterwards especially if you really want another child. Be careful, a decision like that could have a detrimental effect on your mental health and I'd hate for you to regret the decision.

Wait a while, discuss it with your GP, see what treatments would be available during the pregnancy to make it easier for you.

AF yes I did. The fact that a second attack of HG means that recurrent attacks are the norm means that a third attempt would be far more likely to fail than the second and so on.

If it were a random process with a 4:5 chance of success each time I would be worth trying more than once if you are unlucky the first time. If it is correlated as it is then that argument does not hold.

Then I am glad you posted here, IC. And everyone giving you a very hard time on this thread should acknowledge that you have listened and taken stuff on board.

shit...was already overweight BMI the first time....

I didn't get far enough in first pregnancy to experience much sickness and certainly not anywhere near the point that I could tell if it was HG.

I did get a thing where I couldn't walk up hills from 4 weeks onwards...that happened in both cases...which makes me worry that my body has a batshit mental response to being pregnant in general.

A lot of the time I feel guilty for having a girl....I mean why should she have to face this same sort of choice in the future....

I was thinking about my miscarriage last night. If I hadn't had that then I wouldn't have my lovely DD. I got a child out of the process but it wasn't the first I conceived. Do I really need to be in deep mourning for the first proto-child when in reality if that baby had survived I wouldn't have my DD? How different will it really feel if the same thing happens again, but on my decision rather than by luck?

Completely different! With a miscarriage you know that there was nothing you could do to prevent it and possibly the pregnancy wouldn't have produced a child or healthy child anyway. That's the way i think about my miscarriage, that it just wasn't working and growing correctly.

With an abortion you will never know and will always know what a wonderful child they could have grown into who you would have loved as much as your daughter.

I had spd in pregnancy. Different but without its own risks. Obviously there is the horrific pain, inability to do what you need to do whilst you have it, look after older children or work or do housework etc. There is also a risk of being left permanently disabled as happened to someone i know. I had it in my first pregnancy so the chances were higher for my second and i did get it again. I never considered aborting because that didn't seem like a solution. Partly because if i had aborted that child to save myself health issues i would never have forgiven myself and would have grieved for that baby forever, partly because no future pregnancy could have replaced that baby, and partly because it might have meant my never having another baby because it can never be guaranteed you'd get pregnant again.

I think the choice is either never have another child or take the risk and deal with any illness that comes with it. I made sure i could get refered to physio as quick as possible and also knew what action i could take to help myself and went into it with eyes open.

I think you are a very rational, logical person Icbineg !
I admire you for that, and for thinking things through beforehand so sensibly.

Yes, I think you've come to quite a good conclusion there ... that it's "having one more go or not" ... So, considering TTC one more pregnancy ?

As other posters sensible suggested it may be best for your well-being not to try to think further ahead than that for the time being anyway. One step at a time ?

AF oh it's okay...lots of people think having an abortion for any reason is vile...I am not surprised to hear it is vile to consider getting pregnant if you think you might need to abort....

In my book anyone who goes into pregnancy without considering the fact they may need to abort is hopelessly naive.

Everyone is just hoping for the best in the end. In my case the odds may be stacked higher against me than most people considering ttc....but it is just a matter of scale not the principle of the matter that is different.

I suspect the real problem is people not believing it is possible to be ill enough in pregnancy to consider aborting...but there are plenty of other people on here who at least considered it to convince me I am not totally out on a limb.

juggling yes this thread has also made me very aware that I am not remotely ready to ttc yet. I need to be in a much better place first.

Oh well I guess the 'shame on you, you don't deserve to be a parent' gang will have their way at least for the time being....

Just as an aside I've heard girls make you sicker - though all of mine were boys.

You ask about the difference between choosing egg and aborting, and why they are different.

Well, I will ask you in return - at what point in your mind, does the fused egg and sperm become an actual baby?

I feel that if your body has not been given the triggers to nurture that life - ie the hormones have not yet been released, you're not actually pregnant, then it's not a life yet.

But once these hormones are there - once your body is keyed up to protecting this little creature, to making you a safe place for it, and all those complex processes are in force, it eels very wrong, to me, to try and block that - to try and kill, not just the creature but the processes around it.

I don't know how much sense that makes to other people but it felt tragic and so so sad to do that, for me - like drowning a tiny kitten. I made the appointments, I had the counselling, but no, I did not want to gothrough with it and when it came down to it very bone in my body made me angry at the clinic, at the counsellor, at the people wanting me to get rid.

I surprised myself at how vehemently I would protect my tiny baby/bundle of cells. Not that I felt attached to it during the pregnancy - that's different. I just felt strongly about not sticking a spanner in the works, of something my body was trying so desperately hard to do.

but you might find you are very different to me in this respect.

how old is your other child ?

I think it sensible to wait a while longer, going off some of the other stuff you have disclosed on this thread. Get yourself into a better position. There is a 5 year gap between my two, and I still found it very, very hard although I didn't suffer from any mental health complications at all.

Just to reiterate I do understand how HG can drive you to want to terminate - very much so.

I just about managed to hold on, with God knows what reserves. I actually wished for a miscarriage, it was so horrid. But I didn't feel I could take that decision into my own hands, despite holding onto the idea, having it as a get out clause. I'm not very religious but I just felt a baby was the only positive option - I didn't know if I could live with haing 'failed' - to me it felt like there would be nothing left if I terminated. I couldn't bear that thought, to have gonethrough so much, for nothing.

OP, if I may be so bold - perhaps now is the time to leave this thread?

You have reached two monumental conclusions: that you are not yet ready to TTC; and that any subsequent pregnancy is pretty much the last one (either because you won't get HG and so will see the pregnancy through to the end - with luck! - or because you will get HG and wouldn't be prepared to risk any subsequent pregnancies).

Those are fantastic revelations.

I'm not sure you'll get any more from this thread becuase the views on it are too polarised. And some are downright hurtful.

All the very best for the future.

Op.
You sound very logical and sensible to me.
I am rampantly pro choice and that means pro choice for all women, whatever the reason.
I wish you luck, whatever you decide x

Good call, CR

and all the very best of luck, IC

ICBINEG. I am glad, for your sake that you started this thread, it has at least made you aware that you are not ready to have another baby just yet.

Pregnancy did ruin my life, permanently, so I sort of know where you are coming from. I don't think abortion is vile, but I don't agree with what you were thinking of at the beginning of the thread. I do wish you well, though.

I agree with CR about leaving the thread - perhaps even asking MNHQ to lock it so that the debate cannot carry on and upset you further.

I am really glad that the discussion here helped you. It is clear that you have a lot of issues to work through before you can even contemplate getting pregnant. It is great that the sensible and thoughtful posters on the thread helped you come to that realisation.

Best of luck.

ICBINEG, very few posters here have had any experience with HG. They wouldn't be so judgemental if they had to suffer it themselves.

Like you, I had the most horrific HG with my first pregnancy, hospitalised for 8 days, lost 20+ pounds in the first 4 months and then followed up with a massive haemorrhage at the time of child birth. I still haven't gained back the courage for ttc again.

If one can abort for convenience, sanity, birth defects, I don't think there is anything wrong with aborting because of HG complications.

But you need to think very carefully about planned abortion. I had to have one with my first pregnancy and I still can't get over it.

Ooh yes, I absolutely love Cinnabar's post

Hold onto those two monumental decisions IC and as AF says "all the very best of luck" to you x

I agree with CR - totally.

You need to sort out what is going on with you now - you need counselling to deal with it. You are a long way off being ready to TTC even if you could be guaranteed an 'easy' pregnancy.