to ttc if I think I will abort if the HG sets in again?

[ICBINEG]

So DH and I have conceived immediately on two occasions, one early miscarriage and one birth. I had hideous soul destroying sickness almost all of the way through pregnancy. We are beginning to start thinking about having another child, but I feel almost certain I couldn't go through another pregnancy like the last one. My understanding of HG is that it is unlikely to strike twice (although you are slightly more likely to get it if you had it before) and that each pregnancy may be fine or not.

So is it unreasonable to ttc if I think I might abort due to HG?

If we conceive and then I get horribly sick is it unreasonable to abort and try again?

Given we would only ever have one more child and seem to be able to conceive at will this might be more a case of choosing to bring to term the baby that doesn't make me horrendously sick for 9 months rather than wasting life etc.

I'm not sure I can really buy into that argument though....

(ps. if you are of the never abort under any circumstances camp then please don't bother posting...I know that opinion exists and am not in the slightest bit swayed by it. I am interested in hearing from other with grey zone opinions on abortion as to which side of their personal line this falls).

Excellent post Cinnabar. And well done IC.

Clearly the OP has found this thread useful and reached a very sensible conclusion which i am relieved to read.

I think that many posters could also helpfully reflect on this thread because if you say you're pro-choice then that means you are for choice, not that you will always like the choice, doesn't mean you would make that choice. The point is you support the right of the pregnant woman in making that choice. You aren't required to have a view about how 'good' a choice it is.
There are a lot of posts on this thread which are not pro choice at all. By all means express concern for the health and well being of the OP but respect her right, every woman's right to make a choice you don't like.
Our right to terminate pregnancy is not a given. It has to be defended and fought for. As soon as you start to say 'abortion is ok if..' you begin to undermine that right. There's no place for anybody's moral compass in this situation except for the OP.

And it's a right that still needs to be fought for in the UK isn't it NorthernLurker ?

I think I'm right in saying that it isn't an absolute right in this country but 2 doctors have to agree there is a medical reason for it, including the mental well-being of the mother. I think abortion was debated on Panorama the other night but I didn't have the opportunity to watch it (partly as pre-teens were still up and wasn't comfortable to watch it with them)

But anyway I do appreciate your thoughts about accepting others choices even where they are different from what our own might be.

Can you speak to a consultant about treatment for HG before you continue to TTC?

I reiterate that I am really shocked by the "I am pro-choice, but..." posts.

If morally you believe a woman has the right to choose , please can you explain to me why aborting to avoid 9 months of physical and emotional hell and possible PND is any different to scenarios such as:

-- she is getting married and wants to fit into her wedding dress she has already paid for

-- she had a one night stand and doesn't know if the sperm came from her ONS or her DH

-- she hates kids

-- she has just taken a good job and doesn't want to jeopardise it

I am pro choice 100% so I don't think about "good" and "bad" reasons but if pushed I would argue the OP's reasons are better than the reasons listed above, all of which are reasons for abortion in my direct circle of friends.

OP - I jave no idea why you are getting such a hard time from the "disgusted" and "it's immoral" posts.

I think some people think they are pro-choice but actually what they mean is that only if you are 14 and raped by a family member.

ffs

As I said, I am pro-choice, and to me it does matter why you are having an abortion, or how many you have, except that I would find it concerning for a woman to be in a position where she felt she needed 50 or 6 abortions etc. So you can be pro-choice and not pass a judgement on why someone chooses to end a pregnancy, but still be concerned for the woman's welfare? Does that make sense.

Sorry, does not matter why.

I agree Greythorne. A lot of people say 'pro-choice' but what they mean is 'abortion with limits' and that's very dodgy ground indeed.

Absolutely juggling - we do not have abortion on demand in this country. the current situation depends on the laws passed by Parliament. Rights can be lost far more easily than gained.

Yes Easily that does make sense and is a reasonable position.

I had bad morning sickness with dd1 and HG with dd2. She was much longed after, but I was still so low that several times I thought I couldn't continue. However, I couldn't abort either and crazy as it sounds if someone was prepared to shoot me at my lowest I might have agreed. But now looking back I know it was bad, bad was only months and i'm through the other side with 2 gorgeous dds. I wasn't back to normal til she was 6months old. I now desperately want dc3 despite the fact that i'm almost certain i'll get HG again, as I thought it tends to get worse with each subsequent pregnancy. I'm prepared to go through it all again for the end result. I just need to convince DH!
I'm sorry but I don't believe an abortion us an option when you are well aware beforehand of what quite likely will happen, and it is not life and death (though I grant you it may feel that way when you are suffering)
I'd say to stick with one unless you can cope with the HG again.

i havent read through all the comments yet, but i have to say i think YABU and extremely naive.

at what point do you decide the sickness is hyperemesis and not just normal sickness?

i had morning sickness up until 20 weeks - at 21 weeks (where babies have actually survived) could you have had an abortion?

Apologies...I am not disappearing for lengths because I am upset...just because rl keeps interrupting.

I have found a lot of the comments, possibly in particular the 'I am pro-choice but' ones that don't get stabby, very useful.

I have also really appreciated people talking through their own HG and even abortion stories. I know I can't know how it would be for me but seeing some many people finding it far harder than they expected is a massive wake up call.

Again I am really grateful.

I have had HG with my only child, and because of it he is still an only child. I am not ready to go through it again yet.

I was severely ill but I know some people are even more so, to the extent that their life is at risk and termination becomes necessary. I personally had no cause to consider abortion but then I was only sick multiple times a day for 6 months. There were so many moments I wondered how I could make it through the day, let alone the entire pregnancy.

Someone that has never suffered HG cannot even begin to understand. To describe it as "feeling sick" is just ridiculous.

I want so much to have another child and I like to believe I wouldn't even consider abortion, but I don't know that for sure.

I should have said, I thought you should wait, not because I thought you were vile or anything, but because I thought you didn't seem ready.
I remember feeling that afraid of another pregnancy.
I hope that whatever choices you make in the future it works out for you. Best of luck.

chingchok Yes I would like to believe I could get through too. It is the thought that it could be worse than last time...or that it could compound the MH issues I picked up the last time....IYSWIM it could feel a lot worse mentally the second time even if physically it was similar.

I think the only answer to that is to get myself well before considering it again at some point in the future.

Whether you ttc or not, I think you really need to talk to your doc and your OH about how you are still suffering. It is not "normal" (in the sense of common, rather than judgy) to be still suffering so much psychologically from the HG after this long. I think you need to talk this through in rl, maybe with a counsellor. Surely you can't think it's OK to still feel like this? Don't you deserve a better quality of life? Even if you decide your family is now complete, it would be best to get back to feeling like "you" again.

FWIW, I got sterilised after my second HG preg as I (and DH) was 100% positive I couldn't do it a third time and I didn't want to be in the position of an unplanned HG preg. I'd signed forms for the sterilisation to be done during the CS, even if the baby turned out to be stillborn.

I just wanted to say, as someone who hasn't ever suffered with HG, how very much I admire all of you who have. It sounds horrendous, and the number of posters here who struggled through HG pregnancies and came out the other side with a beautiful newborn is testamony to the strength of women.

HG is normally diagnosed (rather than MS) if the sufferer is vomiting throughout the day; can not keep themselves hydrated; loses weight over several weeks; body goes into ketosis; medical intervention is required.

In my case, both pg, I could not move (not even my head, or stand up) without throwing up, even moving in bed in my sleep. Anything I swallowed - food, drink, mess, dribbles of toothpaste, bits of water from shower - bounced straight back up. I was admitted to hospital with 4+ ketones in my wee and it took between 48 hrs and 2 weeks(!) to rehydrate me.

HG is normally diagnosed (rather than MS) if the sufferer is vomiting throughout the day; can not keep themselves hydrated; loses weight over several weeks; body goes into ketosis; medical intervention is required.

In my case, both pg, I could not move (not even my head, or stand up) without throwing up, even moving in bed in my sleep. Anything I swallowed - food, drink, mess, dribbles of toothpaste, bits of water from shower - bounced straight back up. I was admitted to hospital with 4+ ketones in my wee and it took between 48 hrs and 2 weeks(!) to rehydrate me.

I think if you found it so hard last time and you are unable to go through it again then you should not TTC.

I am really trying not to judge, however, I cannot comprehend how aborting a baby for HG is in anyway justifiable.

Isn't a mothers intinct to protect her child/ren above all else including herself?

I appreciate that being very sick would affect your other child which is why I think your only option is no more babies - sorry.

I think I was afraid of never being ready tbh. I was scared, but I didn't see myself ever not being scared to do it, so I went for it anyway. Then wished I hadn't. But of course now he is here, it's grand. I just could never, ever go through that again.

FWIW I am pro-choice and have given my opnion as you have asked.

If you were a friend who was faced with this decision or had made this decision I would support you without prejudice, giving my thoughts if asked.

I am massively, hugely, pro choice. It is a decision I don't think I could take for myself, but that is completely different.

I see that, during the course of the thread, you seem to have moved from aborting and trying again, to one last try. I think that that is rather different. I would totally support your legal right to have multiple terminations, but personally I would be uncomfortable with the idea of six or seven terminations by any woman for the same reason.

I have never had HG myself, but I once watched a documentary where a woman who was desperate, who had had fertility treatment and suffered HG in her second pregnancy nearly aborted. After watching what she went through, I can understand a little of your feelings, though only a little obviously.

I think you would need to do some serious thinking about how far you would go and how bad is bad enough to abort. Since HG is often (though obviously not always) a first trimester thing, you'd run the risk of a fairly traumatic late abortion, not an early medical one. Also, how would you deal with the uncertainty. E.g if you terminated at 10 weeks, would you be able to cope with the idea that it might have stopped at 12? i think that there are some very risky issues for your own mental health here, which you might want to work though with someone before deciding to TTC?

Can you afford a nanny to help with your otter child? Cleaner, gardener etc. Get as much help lined up and just see it as the price you need to pay to have another child. I would imagine going through an abortion would be upsetting and you may regret in future. I don't think it's a good idea to plan for it.

I totally agree with MMelindot and cinnibar.

I think it is a very good thing OP that you have felt able to discuss this in a pragmatic way on here and that the discussion has helped you.

I agree that perhaps you need to really think carefully before you ttc, and that time taken may enable you to feel happier with the decisions you make, and may make the thought of HG less terrifying.