Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

A teacher told me that more is spent on kids in state school than private. I can't remember the full details but as he explained it to me, it made sense at the time.

I suppose because private are run like businesses, corners and cut and any expenses passed onto the parents.

I am jealous of my friends kids school - tennis courts, athletics track, fab school trips, great results... It's a religious school, so we couldn't get in there! Jealousy is a waste of energy though.

You can't really judge what other people do. Some people choose to go private and make sacrifices - size of family, home, holidays, clothes, car... It's not all full of little Cameron's and Osborne's

MiniTheMinx: I think the point is, these uncaring parents of whom you speak can also outsource homeschooling. So the idea of banning private schools is daft.

OP yanbu. It isn't fair. Lots of people seem to frame it as it is about the adults, their aspirations, their decisions, their disappointments.

It isn't. It's about some children accessing teaching and facilities that others can only dream of simply because their parents have money.

And all this we make sacrifices and don't go on several expensive holidays a year - puh-lease. Who the hell does?

Saski

I did for two years, thoroughly recommend it. Didn't change the structural problems though of having a two tier education system or the fact that private education is a privileged education. So although it conveyed academic advantage it doesn't convey social advantage.

Governments know it too. The reason they've given free nursery hours to under 3s and under 2s in some cases is to try to address the imbalance that exists when children start school. Those with uninvolved parents are behind before they set foot in the classroom! The whole 'early years foundation stage' is stuff that most parents have always done with their DC.

Yabu. Most children go to state schools so you are the same as the majority. If it means that much to you that your kids get private education, why don't you retrain/work more hours/all hours to pay for them to go?

State schools suit most of us fine.

MiniTheMinx - if rich people had to use state schools how would that improve state schools? Most rich people I know are working full time to make their money - they don't have the time to be volunteers to help make a school better.

Do you not think those rich people would still not be paying for extra curricular activities, extra tuition etc?

In a capitalist society, the playing field will never be level or fair.

However, every single child in this country has access to free education from nursery to 18. If all the children going to school only took advantage of that, then that might change the playing field a bit>

No (economic) value in women caring for their own children though is there Narked?

"t's about parental aspirations, not kids being all gutted because they're not getting 'the best'. Kids don't know or care"

DS2 doesn't enjoy school a lot of the time - he won't because he's not getting the help he needs. He has ASD and has no allocated one to one time. His teacher is really lovely, as is the TA. But they have 31 children in the class and DS spends a lot of the day in a state of stress because of not having adult support, and because like a lot of children with ASD, he doesn't cope well working in a room crowded with lots of other kids

DS1 is bored a lot of the time. He complains about school a lot. His teacher is fairly young and newly qualified and I think struggles to differentiate - there is a MASSIVE range of abilities of the children in the class. And of course there are 31 of them, two or three of them who have quite significant behavioural issues. In a portakabin in the school playing field. It's not a particularly lovely environment for a bright, artistic and sensitive little boy.

If they were both really happy and doing fantastically well I might feel differently about it.

"seeker the OP stated that she was jealous and bitter"

Why is is considered incredbily WRONG to feel angry and jealous in a situation like this? I know it's not a GOOD thing for me personally to feel like this and I wouldn't want to foster these feelings in my children, but they're an honest response to a bloody unfair situation.

"However 7 years into private education I can honestly say having a involved set of parents is THE key"

Two sets of equally involved parents, two sets of equally bright children. One set of those children going being educated in a class of 15 and the other set of children being educated in a class of 30, which includes children with emotional and behavioural problems, with half the resources available. Which children are likely to do best?

Parents taking an interest in their child's education is key to optimising a child's potential. But so is having enough individualised attention from your teacher, a good learning environment, and a flexible curriculum.

It's not a game of 'top trumps'. Having loving, involved parents doesn't negate a substandard school experience. What ever is going on at home, children still have to spend 30 hours a week in a classroom. And if, during that 30 hours they're getting massively less teacher input than a child in a different learning environment they ARE disadvantaged and it IS unfair.

"Every penny of disposal income I make goes into funding his private schooling, and that means obvious "sacrifices" elsewhere - things that other families might consider a greater priority (second car, multiple foreign holidays etc)"

Unfortunately the things we'd have to 'skimp' on would be food, heating and paying the mortgage. And I already shop at Aldi and home cook all food from scratch!

The only way private schools would be banished is under communism.

Capitalism thrives where there is inequality, so why create equality under capitalism.

Mini - I'm going to have to dust down my cultural capital link before too long, I think.

MiniTheMinx: Of course it doesn't remediate the social disadvantages, but a home-schooled child of relatively "poor" parents can accumulate much of the same "cultural capital" as their private school counterparts. In fact, having parents who have little money but prioritize education to the point of home-schooling could be considered cultural capital in an of itself (to be crass).

Why should I be "helping the state system"? In what way? I work hard, pay taxes and try to be a decent member of the community - am I supposed to be doing something for the state education sector as well?!

Even if you work 12 hours a day, it's how you are when you're with your DC that has a much bigger impact. And the parents I know who send their DC private generally have one less child than they would like - a very conscious sacrifice.

So did we PessaryPam. I feel so sorry for people like the OP who don't have that option. My friend's DH got a fantastic job at Oxford Uni -very prestigious, he did extremely well to get it, but they can't afford to get their (bright) children into a good school. It's awful. I know I'm lucky to be in my small house in a great catchment area.

OP's MIL though.... oh dear. I wonder if she realises how insensitive she's being.

"if rich people had to use state schools how would that improve state schools?"

Because parents don't actually contribute to the running of schools at all do they?

And it makes no difference to children whether they're educated in group which reflects the diversity of society, or whether they're taught in socially exclusive groups?

Anyone who has their children in a high achieving school with a massive middle-class intake will know the social intake of the school makes a difference.

My dc's school can't even get a PTA up and running. Not enough parents willing or able to get involved. (before anyone asks - I've tried. I really have!)

Also, I agree that uneven standards in state schools is a huge issue.

However, it still doesn't account for people from private schools being so overrepresented in terms of wages.

I would also like to know how a couple who both have to work full time to keep a roof over their heads would be able to homeschool.

Time and again children from certain ethnic groups outperform their counterparts academically in some of the most deprived areas of London. These are DC who go to the same schools, live next door to each other and have identical household incomes. The difference is parental attitude to education.

TheOriginalLadyFT, the argument that you're doing the state ed sector a favour by taking one child out of it doesn't work. You can't justify your decision to buy your child a good education by that.

I would also like to know how a couple who both have to work full time to keep a roof over their heads would be able to homeschool.

If it's a priority, you can do it - particularly with older kids. Mother could do 3 hours, father could do 3 hours.

Certainly many of the parents here who wish their kids had better educational opportunities are SAHP's. For those who aren't, it's certainly harder.

Life isn't fair (sure someone may have said this already up thread).

A quick way to make yourself feel like shit is to compare what you and your family have with what another family has. Still you will be the 'rich' person someone else is making themselves feel miserable by comparing themselves to you. No good will come of it.

Count your blessings. Stop comparing your family with other families. Support your kids.

If not fair that some children have to drink filthy puddle water every day/are dying of AIDS/get raped and sent into war zones. That really not fair.

Get a grip. Do the best that you can with what you have got. teach your kids to do the same. Since when has life been fair?

My DC did and one is still in a state school, I have faith in those schools that they have done their very best to attain the utmost achievements in my DC.

I am happy with their education. I feel sorry for those who do not get great education but I also feel sorry for those who feel they have to pay £3k a term to ensure they can get it. Also private schools cannot guarantee results either. I must say I as a parent have had input, ie, helping out and funding and I do think that counts towards a great school.

OP you are right it isn't fair but it's not going to dramatically change overnight either. So you might be better served focussing your energies on the stuff you can change.

For a start, if your ds is diagnosed but not statemented - what can you do about that? I assume you have challenged the school on this? Also lack of a statement does not equal not getting support. My ds has (different) SN, no statement either - and gets plenty of support in school. Perhaps you should look into becoming a school governor and raise this issue?

If your ds's current school simply can't offer what he needs then maybe you need to look at the other options available. A friend of mine moved her dyslexic son last year from one local state primary to another - on paper they look like very similar schools but the new one is a totally different experience.

I wouldn't assume a private school would be better wrt SN anyway. I spoke to another mum last summer whose dc is at our local very highly regarded prep school and tbh I was totally shocked at the way they had handled him. He has similar issues to my youngest and their main strategy seemed to be to keep him down a year - their next suggestion was that his parents could pay for 1-2-1 support for him. (I do know btw that there are private schools with excellent SN provision)