Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

I wouldn't even mind if people were honest, if they said, yeah it sucks that money buys privilege but I'm only here for 70 years and I want eveything I can have for me and my kids and Johhny take the hindmost.

Let's not have fantasy and equivocation about "choice"

Flatbread Tue 05-Feb-13 13:37:16
"If you think that private education is better than state education, how do you deal with the fact that the child of someone who performs an essential, but low paid public service gets a worse education than somebody who has a highly paid, but completely trivial role?

It is the choice of the parents. The stare isn't choosing who goes to private or state schools. The parents are making these decisions. "

Just saying, unless some parents choose to make that decision there won't be enough educational and administrative staff to underpin the private education of your children. And the bins will smell a bit rank too...

Besides, not all parents are born with the brains to do well in exams: this does not necessarily mean that their children won't be bright.

Like I said before, if both parents are working, even in lowly paid jobs, they can scrape to send one child to a private school. (Will probably get bursary help too, but even without that, they can scrape by)

Like I said before, my driving instructor who earns a low income in the SE could educate his daughter in a private school.

If you want to privately educate, there are opportunities. It is not easy and nor is spoon-fed. But the opportunity is there.

But to say they 'show up' state schools is to completely disregard the fact that they take an entirely different cohort of pupils! Swap the intake, then let's see who shows whom up!

Oh look how I spelt Johnny. I didn't got to no private school neither.

"Nit, one good thing about private school is that they show up poorly performing state schools, they raise the bar for everyone. They show it is possible to get great results, this leads to unrest with some state school parents ( witness this board) who then shout : away with these schools!"

They show it's possible to get great results...what with carefully selected, well supported, well nourished, well rested NT kids, great resources, an attractive environment and loads of staff......Well, who'd a thunk it?

eliza, it would be nice to think so, but all the evidence says different. The Marmot review, for instance, incredibly comprehensive, wide-ranging and serious piece of research, showed thick middle class children do far better than bright working class children - money really does matter.

Ubik from one of our old sought after primary school heads, after the catchment had shrunk past us after we'd got the place; "we feel you would be more comfortable in X school"

Chandon Tue 05-Feb-13 13:39:18
"Nit, one good thing about private school is that they show up poorly performing state schools, they raise the bar for everyone. They show it is possible to get great results, this leads to unrest with some state school parents ( witness this board) who then shout : away with these schools!"

As long as they are selective and can exclude pupils with SN or emotional problems, they don't show anything very much at all about what can be achieved under a very different system.

Come on binmen!

You can do it!

A bit of will power and you can pay your entire salary on fees and nick an old uniform from one of the bins!

Enterprise, binmen, that's all you need!

Hully But despite this whole thread, don't you think that is the bottom line? Most people on this thread want what is best for their children. Yes, there are undertones of making it all fair and equal for all but humans are inherently selfish.

Flatbread - can you set out your budget for us, so we can see where your money goes.

My family HAS to live within a reasonably priced commute of central London, as that is where my husband works. We can't be more than an hour's commute away as I need him back before I go out to work in the evening.

Where can you buy or rent a 4 bedroom house within a one hour commute of central London for under £1500 a month? As we also have frail and elderly parents very close by, by the way, we can't move far from where we already are. We need 4 bedrooms also as one of our children has sn and needs a room to himself.

Our council tax is 2.4K a year. Our house insurance is over £800 a year. My husband's commuting costs are nearly £1500 a year. Our car tax and insurance comes to over £800 a year. Petrol (I try not to use the car very often) about £1200 a year. Add in phone, broadband, gas and electric.....

I buy all my clothes in charity shops. Neither of us has expensive any hobbies. I shop in Aldi and Lidl. Buy the kids clothes in primark or get second hand. We eat out at Pizza Express twice a year using vouchers. We hardly do any days out. We've had one holiday abroad (Ireland - we drove) in the last decade, and camp when we go out in the UK.

Really - there is no way we can save £300 a week out of our family budget to pay for private school fees. No way. Most middle income families living in the SE can't either.

After all, you've got all those lovely warm skips to sleep in!

And I suppose it's a good idea if bin men only have one child - it'll "reduce the surplus population"

not all of them crashdoll, not all.

Oh, Hully, it's lovely to see you back!!

GO TO PIZZA EXPRESS TWICE A YEAR WITH VOUCHERS?

There's a violin lesson right there.

CHOICES.

Back like Arnie, cory, back like Arnie

You know, as an aside, we could all spend all day every single day arguing about private education on MN

Oh wait

No, not all people are out for themselves (and their own) but I was pondering on how many people who (rightly) think the education system is unjust but wouldcompromise their beliefs so their children could be better educated.

Private schools do not 'raise the bar' what a load of shit! Those that send their dc there obviously like to think that but they're wrong.

"I would argue instead, that the failing schools should be closed"

Perhaps there is something in this.

Failing schools closed. Their pupils sent (with government money) to the nearest schools which are 'successful' be they grammar, faith, comprehensive or private.

"They show it's possible to get great results...what with carefully selected, well supported, well nourished, well rested NT kids, great resources, an attractive environment and loads of staff......Well, who'd a thunk it?"

I've had an idea for a reality TV show that I think could be a massive hit. It would work like 'wife swap' but instead of swapping wives, two schools, one academically successful private school could swap all its pupils for the pupils of the local scumsack comprehensive, and then we could film what happens in classrooms over the next few months.

It'd be amazing to see all those private school teachers work their magic with massive classes full of disaffected teenagers from the local estates.

Great use of homophones in my last post and I went to St Shit Comp.

And what will happen when the failing schools close (presume you mean schools in Special Measures?) - the private schools will fling wide their gates, will they?

I went to a private school and had a learning disability. I didnt get supported well at all and have very bad memories of being publicly humiliated during class time because my abilities didnt compare to the other childrens. Alot of private schools only worry about grades and their rating compared to other independent schools. They also push the kids very hard because thats what they think parents who pay for education want. I would have preferred to go to a state school. From the outside looking in private schools seem great, but from the inside...not so much.

In my experience a private education isn't really about the education, it's about what happens afterwards. It opens doors. It raises aspiration for pupils - working at a city law firm, with a starting salary of 60k is normal for some folk.

I am state educated and to be perfectly honest I would be terrified if someone wanted to pay me 60k.

That is what private sector is good at - bringing on pupils with aspiration and self belief. I have worked with these people and it is astonishing how resilient they are (although spending the weekend on daddy's yacht, rather than grouting the bathroom, does help is you have work stress )

But it also creates inequality as it means certain sectors (those with high paying jobs) are ring-fenced by the networks of families who move about in certain social circles.