Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

Am always completely baffled ( genuinely) by the idea that the way to improve eduction is by closing down the ones that are doing a good job ( be that private, grammar or church schools).

I would argue instead, that the failing schools should be closed, if any schools should be closed at all. And for failing schools to take a good look at what makes succesful schools succesful ( imo, smaller class sizes and better discipline go a long way. Whereas sports, uniforms and fancy buildings and grounds, are just unnecessary ad ons.

Just cannot see how abolishing succesful schools is going to achieve anything positive.

Basically, are you saying that you would be happy for your children to receive mediocre education as longs as you could be sure nobody gets a better one?

Ok, don't close them down, just turn them into the state school for their area. And bring others up to their standard.

seeker
How do you square it with the fact that your daughter goes to an academically selective grammer school which is unlikely to represent the social make up in the surrounding area (if the Sutton Trust research is correct)? How do you square it with the fact the my children couldn't get into the three best performing primary schools in my local area (one of which is our closest school) because they are not Christian? How do all those people who've paid a premium to live in the catchment area of a good school square it?

The education system in this country is full of these unfairnesses.

Oh and I don't think private education is automatically better.

I have read enough threads/posts on this forum about the great social evil that is private education, to form the opinion stated above.
In many a case, it is indeed sour grapes, regardless the protestations from some of the posters on this particular thread.
Too often its reverse snobbery, plain for all to see. Very ugly emotion indeed.
State does provide education for all and it's free. The problems arise from the inconsistency of its quality.

Just cannot see how abolishing succesful schools is going to achieve anything positive.

Totally agree, but if you get rid of them you can pretend it's a meritocracy more easily.

Seeker, no idea what your question is. Sorry.

Hully, I agree with you regarding entrenched privilege and connections in UK. Class is a major cancer here.

But I think the US, for all its faults, really values intelligence, innovation and hard-work. Lots of successful people come from very ordinary backgrounds. The mind-set from early on is 'i can do anything' and these people made it to top universities and among like minded people, start innovative companies. Stanford, MIT, Caltech are hubs of high-paying jobs and career opportunities.

Private schooling should help create a similar 'can-do' culture in UK, especially if more people sent their kids to these schools where pushing yourself and work ethos is the norm. Private education is not all about Eton and the tentacles of privilege. It is about being in an environment where learning is enormously valued and people are expected to push themselves to achieve.

Hully then the rich will move next door to them, and the cycle continues.

'Life is unfair, I am unfair....', Chaz? As my parents used to say to me a lot for years before I realised they were quoting CJ from the Reggie Perrin books.

Who was - if I remember rightly - a twat.

The 'successful schools' (by which I assume you mean private schools) aren't helping anyone though are they? They're not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, they're not doing it as any kind of service to the country - they're not making anything better for anyone except those whose cold hard cash they're after.

Flatbread- why? Did you not bother to read it?

Seeker, Sorry, it didn't make any sense to me.

If you think that private education is better than state education, how do you deal with the fact that the child of someone who performs an essential, but low paid public service gets a worse education than somebody who has a highly paid, but completely trivial role?

TOSN
All I was getting at was that there other significant problems with unfairness in the education system than the existence of private schools.

Seeker because it isn't a meritocracy.

Sick to death of this 'basic learning' shit. Even if my daughters were only getting 'basic learning', at least they have one another, and don't kip on the sofa in the kitchenette of a 1 bedroom flat while I work 20 hours a day for them to pay to go to private school. I know which I think would be better out of 'basic learning' and 'basic living'

Ok, but that is your choice. Private education is not out of your reach, but you have different priorities, fair enough. But then don't moan when others make education their number one priority.

And btw, I linked to some reasonably big one beds in Scotland where a family of three could live. And there are many similar ones I imagine across the country. It is about choice. And we are all lucky to have the option of free education

SEEKER - I square it by working bloody hard in the state system to provide children everywhere with opportunities. And yes it rips my heart in 2 every time I see another music service provider pulled because a county council doesn't see the value in offering instrumental tuition in schools. Music tuition is the single thing (in my opinion) that can provide social mobility. Yet councils & parents do not support it & it makes me so angry! Particularly when parents tell their children they cannot afford the £5 per week for them to learn an instrument while standing at the school gate with a fag hanging out of their mouth . But I do what I can. You cannot make the world value a good education, but you can try to support those that do value it.

i wasn't being untruthful - there was a them and us mentality locally, a great deal of fear of mixing with the wrong type of people and coming unstuck under a bad influence and , yes, of mixing with people whose values were not aligned with those my parents wanted to foster in me. It took a long time for me to make any friends who had been to a state school as i was told we were different and to mix was definately frowned upon.

I think many 'top performing' state schools are also practising a sort of selection which makes them, in effect, quasi private schools. In Scotland many of our top performing state schools are only accessible if you like in the v expensive catchment and been on waiting list since birth.

My family all work in state education and they say that many of the schools which are 'improving' the 'academies' do so by expelling difficult students. The fact is there is major inequality across the state sector too.

What is needed are more teachers, more provision for SEN, small class sizes and focused tuition for difficult/struggling students.

In the end it all comes down to funding. And that isn't going to happen under this government.

Baby A - large house, private school, parents talk to it - but argue and fight every single night, baby a doesnt go to school to learn but to escape. baby a is not able to forfill potential inspite of the so called material advangtes.

Baby B - materially everything seemingly against it - but is able to grow up proplery and be in a stable home and able to work and concentrate on self.

Baby B will suceed.

If you think that private education is better than state education, how do you deal with the fact that the child of someone who performs an essential, but low paid public service gets a worse education than somebody who has a highly paid, but completely trivial role?

It is the choice of the parents. The stare isn't choosing who goes to private or state schools. The parents are making these decisions.

bollocks

The binman is choosing not to send his children to private school?

Nit, one good thing about private school is that they show up poorly performing state schools, they raise the bar for everyone. They show it is possible to get great results, this leads to unrest with some state school parents ( witness this board) who then shout : away with these schools!

When really, they should campaign for state schools to improve, rather than closing down privates, grammars and church schools.

Imo. But I know MN mainly does not agree. I would love to see state schools outperform private schools. Then private schools would be obsolete, and only for snob- status, and nobody would care about them.

State schools have to up their game ( well, thee government should! The sector needs more cash to enable smaller classes, for starters)

Ohhh! Suddenly I understand!

I've been following this thread and I wonder how many of those people who shout "it's not fair" (and I'm not say it is fair btw) would jump at the chance if their child could go to private school?

(I do not have children yet, so have no axe to grind. I also was educated both privately and in the state system.)

Silly old binman making all the wrong choices! Bet silly old him didn't go to private school.