Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

echt - make them bear the full cost, errmmm I think most of us in private are paying the full cost, plus the full cost of at least one if not two or three in state [hmmm]

The whole message in this country is bloody wrong - you "do well" (i.e. work as apposed to sitting on your arse expecting shit and eating hob nobs) and you are a snob. This I find really difficult, I come from working class stock and have happened to work very hard in order to command a good salary. Out of that salary I paid £34K in tax last year and my husband paid a further £16K, not only did I pay that in tax I also took my child out of state school hence saving a place for someone else, my company gives me private medical insurance so I don't need to use the NHS and bog down their dwindling resources, I also hire a cleaner, gardener, decorator who then pay another lot of tax on what I pay them. I work bloody hard, pay people well, don't take what I don't need but still I am a social pariah? Weird....

I'm very late to the farm on this one but OP I'm totally with you. It's a shitty lesson in life to teach our children it's not hard work that gets you on in life it's your parent's money. Really shitty. And we wonder why we live in a selfish self absorbed society. Because children learn at a very young age that everything boils down to how much cash your parents had.

You're right spam there is a very weird reverse snobbery about people who work hard and do well. It's a good job we do, because that is what keeps the economy afloat

Wallison - I employ a LOT of people and to say that they all work hard is a complete and utter lie/understatment/misnomer.

Fair enough whateverittakes - we all have things we can't have no matter how much we might wish it.

Does that mean no one else should be allowed it either?

Sometimes everyone should be allowed. I don't think poor people should be worse off because they can't afford food or healthcare. I don't their children should receive a worse education either (especially as education is compulsory). Choice is fine but schools are not really a choice for most.

There are plenty of people who work hard. They may not earn as much money as you, but they work hard. As I said, working hard is nothing special; we all do it. And using private education and private medicine doesn't mean you aren't taking something - who do you think trains doctors and teachers who work in the private sector? That's right, the public sector. Which we all pay into.

But we can't - for whatever reason. So again, does that mean that no one should have access to it?

I think you'll find that not everybody works hard. Would that it were so

In the past I have had private health insurance. My taxes pay for the NHS that I didn't use most of the time. However I did have access to it and could see a NHS GP even if I then pay to see a consultant privately. That isn't the same with the LEA.

Once you choose private education the only way you can access any of the services provided by the LEA for free is to pay. Ds had developmental problems from being a prem. His NHS GP wanted to refer him to an Ed Psych via the Child Development Centre. The consultant at the CDC said that because ds was at private school he did not have access to anything that was paid by the LEA. This was despite ds's issues being directly related to being a prem and despite the fact that he had been under the continual care of a consultant from birth. I didn't have private health insurance and would have had to pay for something that in a state school ds would have got for free. That made me very cross indeed as I couldn't afford to pay and there was no way round it that the GP or consultant could do (unless it was suspected autism, which it wasn't).

I think the OP needs to have a word with her PILS and ask them to lay off the overt praising of the other grandkids in front of her...

spamspam- you don't seem to like other posters generalisations but your own posts are full of generalisations coloured by your own experience and the fact that you appear to feel that you have worked incredibly hard.

Some parents at state schools work very hard and still can't afford private school. They are certainly not all SAHMs. Equally, at our local private school, very few (probably less than 10%) of the mothers work at all. They just happen to be married to v high earning men and a lot of them (the men) don't work especially hard either. Earning a high salary is not always linked to how hard you work.

mummy - I don't like generalisations as such but I do like sharing my experiences

lisa, the original point I was responding to was this, from HappyMummy:

"If everyone was automatically entitled to the same things in life there would be no incentive to do well."

which made me wonder if the children who have the benefit of private education (and it is a benefit, and it is the children who receive it) are the ones who are 'doing well', or if it is just the fact that their parents have 'done well' (ie earned a lot of money, which doesn't necessarily involve doing a job well) that gives them this privilege. Because you can't exactly say that a five year-old has 'done well' enough to allow them the benefit of a private education.

The OriginalLadyFT - do you really think that hard work = money? Really? You think that cleaners don't work hard? Or carers working in homes for the terminally ill? Or nursery nurses? Or binmen? There are plenty of people who work hard but don't have a lot of money.

Being private should mean bearing the full cost, otherwise it's not private, is it?
It's state-subsidised, with the advantage of keeping costs down via charitable status and teachers being a part of the state teachers' pension scheme. While controlling entry to the school.

I've already made the point about unhypothecated taxes upthread. If you want to see a society where everyone only pays what they imagine to be what they benefit for, then say so. You ARE using the NHS - who trained the doctors? I don't think you're a social pariah, I just object to the claims of private education when it's far from it. Spare me the bit about "saving a place" for someone else by taking your child out of the state system; you did it because you wanted to and perceived an advantage for you child. No problem with that, but see my second para as to why it's not really private.

Oh and- toughasold boots. FYI

No doctor can leave university and go straight into the private sector. It takes somewhere roughly between 12 and 20 years after graduating to become a Consultant (only Consultants can work in the private sector) and all that time would be spent working for the NHS so plenty of pay back for the expensive training.

and even then very very few work exclusively in the private sector. Most continue NHS work if they do private at all.

Fair enough spam spam. I 100% believe in hard work and think a lot of people in this country are pretty work shy but hard work doesn't always lead to significant financial gain.

I don't doubt that cleaners work hard, but does that automatically mean people who earn a good salary are not working hard/jammy bastards/privileged sods? Really, what an odd argument

You asked how it was that people like me had "done well". I answered, and in my case it wasn't a privileged background, it was hard work

^ I don't like generalisations as such but I do like sharing my experiences

You certainly do. You also seem to like extrapolating huge generalised so-called 'truths' from your own experiences and thinking that what you have experienced is the same for everyone. Still, you earn lots of money so obviously you're more clever than us mere mortals who have different lives to you.

amicissima. All schools do NOT select. The last two schools I worked in in the UK took whatever the LEA sent them.

While I'll have to take your word for it that some independents don't select by ability; they can, and do, chuck out whenever they like. And the state sector HAS to take that child and educate (which they should, of course).

Manual labour is rather hard work. but does it require years and years of study and numerous degrees?
It does come down to choices we all make early on, and then pure tenacity, determination and aspiration.
Xenia could give lectures (and should) on the subject.

^ but does that automatically mean people who earn a good salary are not working hard/jammy bastards/privileged sods? Really, what an odd argument

I didn't say that.

^ You asked how it was that people like me had "done well".

No I fucking didn't. I've explained twice now what I was saying. Come on, you've got lots of money so you're obviously clever. Surely you can do that old trick of looking at words, reading them and getting meaning from them.