Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

Scottishmummy

What a lovely post, and here was I thinking you didn't have a heart. Well I'm truly [embarrassed] about my past impression of your posts.

Both my DCs were educated at exclusive private single sex schools.

DS doesn't have any DC and DD home schools her DC.

I think you have to remember that the school they attend isn't the be all and end all. DC actually spend more time in the home then at school. So put in the effort at home to make up for the so called shortfalls in their state school.

I think that is a bit harsh Spam. Some of what she says - about standing behind the school but fighting behind the scenes - makes sense. I don't think she is saying that ALL parents with loads of cash couldn't care less - but it is the children whose parents do care - regardless of whether they are private or state educated - who will succeed educationally. I think the comma makes it read slightly ambiguously.

Your daughter - you have fallen into the trap of thinking that everyone who pays for private education can afford anything at all!

Have you been around a private school recently, even the most famous. No, I didnt think so. You will see all sorts from the few who can afford the fees without blinking to extended families funding a child's education -to grandparents who have done well in the housing boom paying the fees, to parents both working and funding their children.

And everything in between.... have you ever thought that your private education brought you the ability to fight for what you consider important?

It's just easier to believe the myth that people who use private schools are rich, entitled snobs

We certainly don't have lots of cash - we live in a rented house, drive an 11yr old car and work 12-hr days to ensure we can prioritise DS's education. Still, let's not let the truth get in the way of a blinkered view

Spam of course I'm not suggesting that! Just making the point that no matter how much money you have it's about time you spend with your children that counts. The point that my parents sent both my brother and I to private school denotes that I come from a family that's not too badly off and yet my parents spent as much time with us as they could. Kids at school with me who were plenty better off, but whose parents had little time for them (note that's parents who choose not to spend time with their kids, not the ones who can't for whatever reason) were the ones with behavioural issues and often the ones who didn't succeed. Anyway, point was that op shouldn't give up heart, she obviously cares for her DCs and ultimately in my experience that's the deciding factor in your child's success

There are plenty of people who could afford school fees but choose not to. My db is one of those and yet he and my sil look at the educational choices I have made for ds with envy. They don't seem to notice that they change their cars every two years; I keep mine until they die. They spend a fortune on the latest gadget, designer clothes for themselves and their dcs etc etc. I spend mine on ds's education (which I couldn't afford if I had to pay full fees). Not always, but sometimes, it is about choice.

Maisie I'm exceptionally proud of my education and all that it has given me. If my post has been taken that I'm attacking private education I'm sorry, I meant just the opposite. I was simply trying to point out that really all the research and educational experience points that the deciding factor on a child's success in life is their parental input,not what school they go to, how much money they have etc.

I think for most people (the OP very much included) if they won the lottery or came into some money it is a blinkered person who doesnt at least take a peek at a private school....

Will it be fair that they come into some money that they havent 'earned'. I wish sometimes that grandparents would help out but funds dont allow them and why should they. It is our choice and we have to work out the right way to allow us to fund it ourselves. Our decision and our consequence.

And someone quoting the fact that nearly 60% of pupils are from overseas - where has that come from!!! I saw a lot of senior day and boarding schools when looking around a few years ago. Unoffically the schools will take no more than 10-15% from abroad.

maisie you are right about that :)

There is this assumption that all paying for private are swanning about with loads of money which is simply not true. There are more white vans/second hand cars in my private school car park than there is in the local state. When I walk my dog past local state school, they are all swanning about walking dogs, grabbing coffee, going to pilates etc, however at school drop off in private most mums are rushing about trying to get to work. When I was in State school I was one of the only working women in my daughters year group. Surely that's got to be wrong? All of these swathes of perfectly capable women choosing not to work, not putting into the pot but taking out of the system...

It's not much of a choice if you have to have a certain amount of income in order to make that choice. I mean, there are plenty of people who don't have that choice at all. It's kind of like saying that holidaying in the Bahamas is just a matter of choice as well - well, yes, sure it is in the sense that you decide whether you go there or not. But first off you have to have the money to be able to get there, don't you?

Fwiw, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to recognise that there is a system of privilege in this country and that familiy money buys you an easier ride through school and indeed life. To pretend otherwise is stupid. Just look at the educational background of the cabinet and the directors of FTSE companies and tell me that they got there through chance.

However, short of a revolution (and we're not very good at those) that is not going to change. What you can do is maximise your own children's chances, by providing opportunities to them outside of school and supporting them in the learning that they do in school. You can take the to the theatre, and concerts, and introduce them to good books, and do everything to help them to soak up knowledge and culture and things that will enrich their lives.

It still won't make for a level playing-field, but at least you will have done what you can.

I agree parental input is key. Look at some of the state schools, parents not bothering to turn up to parents evening, storming into school demanding their child be given their mobile back even though they were using it when they shouldnt.

And why do you need a mobile at school. They should be banned from classes. Why is that so difficult for the state system to grasp, its all about rights and entitlement and the behavior just seems to be tolerated now and allowed.

I don't think it is blinkered not to look at private schools if you have the money, but I seem to be in the minority in thinking that. I definitely think OP would send her kids to private if she could, judging by her posts, so it is interesting for her to start a post about it not being fair. Or OP have I misinterpreted?

Yes, spamspamspam, I'm sure that private schools up and down the country are populated by working-class people.

Ffs.

maisiejoe, you have made some points that I agree with but I am having a wry smile at the notion that the state education system is 'all about rights and entitlement' while private education is not.

I can see how galling it must be for you and it would irk me if I were in your situation. I can't afford a private education for my kids but if I had the money I would probably buy one just like I'd buy a better car, house , holidays etc.

I'd rather live in a capitalist society than a communist one.

Wallison - working class = working yes?

Then yes private schools are populated by working people because the majority of them have to fund the private schools through their wages.

Simple economics surely?

I know a lot of people who are "working class" but choose not to work, choose not to have my work ethic and life and choose a much easier way of life for themselves but then can't afford things and expect "someone" "somewhere" to pay for it - this I find most bizarre.

I am convinced at least 70% of the population think there is some little room somewhere printing out new £ notes to pay for all of this idealistic entitlement.

I dont have family money sadly. My DH and myself have funded this. We made some choices, some not particularly attracive. He would like to live in the middle of nowhere (I wouldnt!) but he knows that wont fund the lifestyle we want.

I know that I will work 50 plus hours per week until I retire (although some I can do from home) working for a large corporate. . Again not particularly nice and I can think of better things to do with my time but that is the price I pay. My retirement age has gone up again and I wont get my state pension until I am 68 despite having paid in since I was 18. And yes, I agree the state system has a lot of SAHM's probably bitching about how they cannot afford and wouldnt want to go to a snobby private school. Give them a lottery win and they will be first through the door methinks...

I have lost child benefit yet people coming from Eastern Europe who havent paid a penny in will come in next year and be entitled to it. Is that fair? I think not - if my CB was going towards hardworking families that would be fine but to people who havent paid anything in.....

I wouldn't look at private school if I won every lottery there is.

YABU, its one of those things in life. If everyone was automatically entitled to the same things in life there would be no incentive to do well.

People make their own choices in life, some limit their children to provide the life they want for them, others prefer more children and less material things.

We cant afford private but i dont begrudge those that can. We are lucky that although semi rural the head ensures lots of variety and outside provision and parents can pay for extras.

You can always out some extra work in with them at home or find local music tutors or clubs if the school doesnt offer it.

Well, there's lots of things in life that people find bizarre, Spamspamspam.

I, for example, find bizarre the notion that state schools (which educate 94% of the country's children) are wholly populated by children of parents who don't work, given that most adults of working age do work; if the only people who earn an honest day's crust are the parents of children in private schools then, given that they amount to a very small section of the population, the country must be in dire straits indeed.

^ If everyone was automatically entitled to the same things in life there would be no incentive to do well.

And how, exactly, have children whose parents can afford to buy them education and privilege "done well"?

You're joking, right? How have we done well?! God give me strength - how about overcoming a difficult childhood incl losing your father as a child, working like a dog through school and Uni, clawing your way up through a career populated with sexist pigs then starting two small businesses which will eventually employ local people. Not to mention being a lifelong tax payer as an adult to actually contributing to the economy, rather than sponging off it.

Really, it's a good job some of us work hard and make money, cos god only knows who would be paying for things otherwise

|Wallison, these parents have made choices, not always the most attractive to some. The woman go back to work full time, they limit their family, they dont always demand the latest of everything. - 3 would have finished us off!

You make choices and what I find most irriating about the OP is she claims to have a degree and her partner a PHD yet she doesnt seem to get that they are ideal to help nuture their children. She is full of 'yes, but I cannot do this, yes, but I need to be near elderly parents, yes but I cannot re-train, and so it goes on. I havent read the whole post but I am wondering what it is she does do for a living. I could say that having the tax payer funding her education and then her choosing to work part time is a waste of money but I fear a load of 'yes but's.....

I see on various posts people who wont leave their little village in Wales (sorry Wales!) because it would mean leaving their best friend, family etc, who claim to not have time to study for extra qualifcations even though they are not working, who wont do the hours required to earn the larger salaries, who wont travel more than 15 mins to work, who make mistake after mistake with men and never learn and then complain about the fact that people paying for private education are snobs, have somehow come across this money and dont deserve it.