Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

How has your SIL managed to send her three dc to private school?

"you might find things are actually working in your favour"

If my children were enjoying school more and were achieving really well I might feel differently, I'll give you that.

Clouds - it's his emotional difficulties that are the biggest barrier to his learning. He really does need an adult to sit with him when he's writing, and to take him away from the other children when he's struggling. But they just can't always do this - he's not the only child who needs help in class. I agree that TA's don't necessarily need a massive amount of training, but it can really help.

Last year his TA was an ignorant cow, who clearly despised ds and thought he was just a bloody nuisance. His teacher wrote on his report 'DS needs to learn to understand other children's feelings'. No shit Sherlock! He was a very, very unhappy little boy by the end of the academic year.

Wondering if you are misunderstanding what way above national average is.

I can tell you how we do it.

1. No expensive hobbies

1. Both parents working full time

1. No previous relationships and maintenance payments

1. No looking at things as a negative or quoting stories about people that have tried and failed

1. Limiting the number of children you choose to have. Three children would have seen us go in a completely different direction.

1. Council tax is payable by all who are considering school fees. Ours are £250 per moht

1. We have foreign holidays and two cars (one company and the other 10+ years old)

1. Having children late in life. Bit daft but you do tend to be more settled in your career and have more money.

it's unfair yes,but end if day up to them.they're using financial advantage
in same way way house prices elevate in good school catchment
plenty mc parents cough up via mortgage by squeezing into catchment creating mc enclaves

We've paid off our mortgage and don't live in South East, DH has good job, I usually work P/T in pre-school. But no way we could contemplate it. We can just about afford for them to go to the clubs they are most interested in, and have a weeks family holiday a year in Norfolk - either camping or youth hostel.
It's fine, I'm happy with their schools, and they're doing OK - but scraping together a spare £12k a year from modest incomes ? - don't make me laugh

Yermina.

My ds1 attended the worst school you could imagine. There were hardly any who came out with a GCSE in Eng and Maths, but he got 10. He then did A levels at college, pretty similar in terms of culture. Then onto University where he did equally well and now in full time employment.
The difference between him and many of his peers were both dh and I are educated, and supported his education.

I was not happy with many aspects of dds education, the constraints of the teachers and curriculum especially. Since September she has been H.ed so we can provide her with the education we feel will suit her. Have you and your dh considered H.ed at all?

Yabu, it is a free country, and I think you would put your own kids in private school, if you could afford it ( that is hw your op comes across, may be wrong).

You do not want anyone else to have a better education than your kids. So all schools better than yours should be banned? Wat if your school is better tan someone elses, should yours be banned? Otherwise it would really not be fair.

So, should we all aim for that lowest common denominator? Or give up freedom of education? Enforce a communist model?

Also, take heart that often state schools do a very good job, and most people are state school educated and do well.

I think to ensure that you can realistically afford fees you have to both be working in well paid jobs. Part time work and the like (unless your DH is a investment banker!) will just not allow you to do it. But a SAHM can do lots. Volunteer at the school, improve things, rather than just sitting back and complaining will help. Choose where you live carefully to ensure that you have options. And if you really really feel that your school is not doing it for your children- then think the unthinkable.

My older DS is at a very well know boarding school. One of the younger boys mother said to me a while ago about her son who is very unhappy boarding 'well what can I do...' Well you silly woman, you can move house, you can choose a day school. She doesnt want to do that because moving house would be too much like hard work. So, she has a son who will be scarred for life because she cannot see the wider picture. Her DH who is working away has the fees paid by his company so again she has said she doesnt want to lose that benefit.

I just want to shake her....

Chandon, I think you are right. The OP wants it all. However the communist model doesnt work. If one feels that is the way to go, move to a communist country - no - I didnt think so.....

The only things that are unfair about private schools are their charitable status and the fact that their teachers get the state teachers' pension. If they had to contribute to private pensions, as they should, fees would rise.

Private should be private. All the way.

where were you and your DH educated op = state or private.

And presume that you didnt pay for your universtiy degree. Something both my DS's will now have to pay for. Have I complained it is 'unfair'

I think it's very unfair that kids today have to pay for university. The rot set in when they tried to lower the standards to get avalanches of students in, basically trying to give degrees to people who weren't up to them.

If the bar was higher as it was back in the Middle Ages when I got a grant there wouldn't be so many students to fund. Only really bright people got in back in the day.

Because of the need to repay the loan, it seriously worries me that non-money generating subjects just won't get applicants any more. I can see a world in which the only people with a History of Art or a Philosophy degree will be the offspring of the very wealthy. Botany? Where's the money in that? Agribusiness, I suppose. Theology?

Mind you, this intern stuff horrifies me. I'd never have got into journalism as I did, through nous and talent. Who can pay for an adult child's rent & keep in London?

Education costs 13% of the UK budget. That to me equates to £6,500 of tax I paid for last year alone and probably a total of approximately £90-£100K for the whole of my daughters education. I don't use that space, I pay for many other people to be state educated but I choose to pay a further £15K a year to have my child educated.

Why - because in my "affluent" area the primary school did not suit my child. The school concentrates on the top 5% and the bottom 5% but anyone in between is overlooked IMHO. My daughter was heading in the direction of being unable to read, write and have any basic maths skills at 8 just because she could hide in class and although she is very bright she is dyslexic and the school refused to accept or acknowledge this. When your 8 year old is coming home crying saying she is thick is really not a good thing.

My very good friend who has never worked, takes more out of the system than they put in has the most fantastic school that her son attends. I am gobsmacked by the facilities and quality of schooling that is available in an area that is less affluent - it is really not very fair at all, most definately a postcode lottery whereby the less fortunate get the best.

So no life is not fair. I would very much like that £85K tax back as a credit to spend on other things but I doubt that will ever happen as I am "rich" and therefore have no choice how to spend 40% of my hard earned money.

And yes I am "lucky" to earn over 6 figures but I have a work ethic that I don't encounter very often. I left state school at 15 with no qualifications whatsoever and had a very basic shop job. I have managed through hard work and effort to get myself in the position I am in now, a good job with a major corporate company. Many others could do this but they choose not to.

All these people paying for private schooling are keeping state education in place and to say they are doing nothing to help state is an outrage.

The conservative way to figure out financials would be to look at one partner's income and base all housing/outgoings on that.

We, as many others, based all our mortgage and other financial decisions on one income. It is safest, as if one of us were to lose our job, we would still be ok.

The second income is for savings/ education/holiday homes.

Fwiw, most bankers on one income cannot afford three children in private school.

Op it seems you want it all. Stay close to parents, have a decent house, have three children, work part-time and send them all to private school.

And then get jealous because you can't.

Yadbvu

Yes, it's unfair but life isn't always fair.

90% of the UK population are in the same situation as you in terms of not being able to afford private education.

Instead of letting yourself get eaten up with feelings of jealousy, which may have a further negative impact on your children, put your energies into supporting them with their education and extra curricular activities as much as you can. Encourage them to work hard, learn as many skills as they can, become effective learners as well as overall happy, pleasant people.
Those things are much more important than sending them to private school.

With regards your DS with the SEN, are there any other schools which may suit him better in the area? Could you stretch to a private tutor to help him with his confidence and emotional difficulties?

It would also definitely be worth you or your DH having a polite word with MIL about SIL's children's education if it upsets you so much.

My sils kids both went to good private schools. The lad flunked A levels and had to resit and the girl dropped out if 6th form and now dosses around sponsored by her doting parents when they should kick her entitled arse.

My kids went to comps and managed to get good degrees.

Life's a journey not a race.

Chin up and stop bloody bowing to your sil, boast about your kids as sure they are bloody fantastic!!!!!

Yes exactly the body. Private school isn't everything and doesn't guarantee success. Teaching your children other skills and values is much more important.

it's not easy to worry about your kids op,the what ifs,school worries
don't compare self to sil,youre not in similar circumstances and paths v different
give kids big hug,gather em close make best what you've got.no more comparisons

options:

a) sell your house, get something smaller and cheaper, make your investment in your children's education.
b) settle for state, focus on enrichment. ie do the good things about education yourself.
c) continue whining.

YABU

Research shows consistently that it is not education that is the key determinant of a child's outcome in life, but their home and family background.

In other words, middle-class children from stable and supportive family tend to do better in life - regardless of whether they were educated in the state or private system.

All that would happen if we didn't have private schools is that the'wealthy parents would move to the areas with the best state schools and flood them with their "privileged" children. Then housing prices would hike further and these would become your state run private school equivalents.
I have every sympathy with you op I really do. I was privately educated, and thank God I was; I would have been eaten alive in our local state schools. Unfortunately there is little chance we'll be able to put our DCs into private education as we can't afford it. The area where we live was rated the worst in the country by Ofsted for primary education, so we don't stand much chance.
However, my mum has been a teacher for 30 years and I have for nearly 10. The last five years of which have been spent at one of the most deprived secondarys in the country. We sent one of our girls to Cambridge last year (our average A-level grade is a D). The biggest difference in a child's education in my experience, my mum's experience and most teacher's is parental support. Stand by the school you have chosen in front of your DCs, but don't stop fighting for them behind the scenes. Parents who make a fuss get what they want in the end, it's a pain but it's worth it. Push for that statement, push for SEN support, push the music dept to work with your son. Spend time with your children on hwk (if you need support talk to their teachers/form tutors). It's the kids with these parents, the one's who care, who praise their achievements and who support them through the bad times at school, who excel and achieve to their capabilities, not the ones with parent with loads of cash, but who don't spend time with them at the end of the day.

Good luck and hope things improve x

Indeed agree Scottish and mummy

Yourdaughter - so you "know" everyone personally with "loads of cash" do you? you know exactly how much time they spend with their children each day? Are you saying that everyone with "loads of cash" doesn't see or care for their children?

Ha ha ha - yours has got to be one of the most idiotic posts on this thread which is worrying given that you are supposed to be educating our young

Mrs Bunny - I think she will go for Option C. For all her education - who does she think funded it and also her DH's PHD - she has a big chip on her shoulder.

I left at 17 from a rubbish school. It was blooming useless. My regret is that there was no expectation to go to uni. The OP has had all of this and clearly parents who saw the value.

I recently went to a presentation at my older son's school about university choices. In the 70's 5% went to uni. Due to Labour's stupid policy of degrees for everyone it was ramped up to 50% plus.

If I was running the education system I would make vocational subjects, plumbers, electricans etc a really valued trade. After all if water is pouring through your ceiling you dont ring the Chairman of M&S!

We have horrendous school fees. We are now in the very expensive years. My plan B (should we need it) for the last few years is sell the house and move somewhere smaller. We are lucky we have a lot of equity. It isnt ideal but its my Plan B. I wont be coming on here moaning that I cannot afford it.

Always have a Plan B and Plan C.....