Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

Posters who claim that it's a choice to not have a very well paid job must be forgetting about those people who have a vocation eg teaching, vicar.....

(and I know about ASD: one of mine has it too. This, to my mind, is all the more reason why I am going to make sure they end up at the best possible secondary schools).

Vicars children get private schooling, don't they?

Not that I know of.

Our local vicar in a leafy village school has his children in the local primary.

I thought teachers did too. Or at least discounts. I'm sure..... I'll ask the vicar next time I see him.

"Yermina, how much time do you spend considering how significantly advantaged your children are in relation to some others.

You don't like that other children have advantage over your children, but what about the advantage your children have other others? That matters too"

Yes - my children are advantaged by having loving and involved parents. There are many children whose parents aren't educated and who don't take much of an interest in their education, and who, even if they did take an interest, aren't equipped to help them.

I acknowledge this.

"and then the contextual information on the average results for their school and diagnosed SpLDs will be taken into account and your DCs given credit for their disadvantage in the university admissions process"

My children will be educated in secondary school alongside a high proportion of children who WON'T go to university. I know we all like to think that our children will carry on upholding their family values above those of their peers throughout the crucial teenage years, but experience tells me that this isn't always the case. I never 'assume' my children will go to university. My bright little boy with ASD has gone up into juniors with a level one in his writing. Unless something really drastic happens to his learning between now and 16, he may not even get GCSE's, let alone A-levels.

Countrykitten: so you had a great private education but would deny that to others...eh?

Yes. I think public schools should be banned or, if not banned, taxed to nth. If we didn't have private schools wealthy parents would give their input to the state system. You imagine all those highly motivated rich buggers trying to improve their local school...

There was a bit in the news recently about a Canadian banker who said he'd never leave England while his kids were in school here. He said you couldn't purchase the various lifelong benefits of a public school education where he came from. Gave his kids an immeasurable advantage.

TheOriginalLadyFT my DS's school is £12,000k, we're lower middle class and work long hours to scrape the money together.

I was thinking of the big public schools. Day schools are cheaper and, generally speaking, not so old boy network friendly, so the social benefits are perhaps a little less. As for your sums I have never had, and never could have had £12,000 left over after essentials -- not including holidays or any luxuries. To call yourself lower middle class when you can scrape that sort of sum out the back of your sofa seems a little over modest. Mind you, I'm a widow with a disabled DS, so my working hours capacity is limited.

'Discounts for children in the teaching, clergy, armed forces professions'. That rules me out then... Should've made better career choices.

I wouldn't want to live in a communist state BUT I think education is different to houses, cars, holidays etc. Our children's schooling should not be dependent on their parents' income level. That is clearly crap and wrong. It perpetuates inequality.
The bottom line is that every single school should have ENOUGH MONEY to provide a top quality education for its pupils. This should be non-negotiable.
The OP is right when she says that most people simply accept that 5% of kids get a much better education than the other 95%. But eduaction is the foundation of life, it's not like one person driving a BMW and another person driving a Mini Metro!

Yes there are schools that have special bursaries for children of the clergy. And if you are a teacher and really want that education for your children then working in the school will see you getting a discount. Especially at boarding schools.

"surely you and your DH ought to be able to tutor a reasonably bright child to well above 11+ level for grammar school entry?"

You'd think it wouldn't you?

But I know plenty of very bright professional people with very bright kids who haven't got a grammar school place locally.

One of my friends is a primary teacher and is very sharp indeed. Her ds (the oldest and brightest in his year) didn't get a place after sitting the exam, despite performing well enough in the Dulwich College exams to secure an interview (not sure if he's got a place there, haven't heard). Go figure. Not only did she tutor him herself, but they also paid an experienced 11+ tutor to help too. It's VERY competitive.

But we'll be giving it our best shot anyway.

So what is the school doing for your ds who has ASD?

Is he at least on SA+ if he hasn't got a statement?

Sooty if you have already said - it's a long thread!

Haven't ploughed through the whole thread, but IMO any child with SN is way better off in the state system.

Private schools are set up to get pupils through exams, whereas even the smallest local primary will have access to SENCO, funding, specialists and medics automatically. Procedures and paths are well known in a state school - in a private school, not that many people are clued up, and the parents have got to find 200 an hour for everyone involved.

No, just first dibs at a faith school place. Unless they're the youngest son of an Earl or whatever - but then they'd still have to pay.

ok - i get what your saying and agree it is unfair. However the hard fact is we need kids in private school as there are not enough places, or money to pay for those places in state education if private schools were to close. The education system would sink - right or wrong that is just the way it is.

Let them get on with it, ignore the gloating (if there is any) and as advised above investigate every bursary/scholarship available if that is what you would like. If not remember loads of children fly and achieve very highly in sate school with a little help and support at home!

Oh, and private schools aren't the preserve of the upper classes - they're the preserve of wealthy foreigners.

What no prospectus ever tells you is that nowadays 58 per cent of pupils are foreign. The UK's middle and upper classes can't afford private schools either.

Persimmon - it's also the case that the UK has a real problem with inequality of education that goes way beyond what happens in other European countries.

Particularly Finland which has one of the best education systems in the world: here

By the way - Finland has a pretty much completely comprehensive system. Children of all abilities and backgrounds educated alongside each other. Apparently Finland scores the highest average results for science and reading in the developed world.

Oh, and their children don't start formal schooling until they're 7!

"Is he at least on SA+ if he hasn't got a statement?"

He is on SA+. He hasn't got a statement. Many children on SA+ do not have and will not be given a statement.

His teacher is lovely but neither she nor the TA have any specific training on supporting children with ASD. He is one of 31 in his class.

I'm bored of hearing about the charitable status thing - it is only worth about £200 per pupil.

Incidentally if private schools were abolished tomorrow the taxpayer would have to find £2.5 billion to educate those children forced back into state education.

"But I know plenty of very bright professional people with very bright kids who haven't got a grammar school place locally."

In that case, when yours do, you'll be able to boast like anything to your PIL.

If I were you and had grammar schools nearby, I would make sure that no child was better prepared than mine. You seem to have given up even before you've started. I think you want to assume that your children will be successful, then go about making sure that they are.

Yermina -you keep saying yes but, yes but...

If you actually looked on it as a glass half full as opposed to glass half empty you might find things are actually working in your favour.

Corgal - I would disagree. At both DS's schools - prep and senior there are no more than 10% of pupils from abroad. I dont know where you are getting your figures from. And in the SE there is money for these schools.

I know that, I probably didn't come across very clearly in my post. My ds also has ASD and was on SA+ when he was still at primary school. I was wondering what they are doing to help his learning and improve his writing level.

Do you think they are doing anything worthwhile with your ds? If not, there are other things you can do to help get him the support he deserves.

I don't actually think teachers or TAs need to have specific ASD training to be able to effectively support children with ASD. They need a good understanding and awareness of course, but that's not the same as formal training. There is only so much input training can give anyway, as the spectrum is so wide that what works for one will actively work against another.

I would love all people who 'scrape together' full fees for their children to put all the sums down so we can see just what sort of sacrifices they make. You know - salaries, mortgage, rent, council tax etc.

Because DH and I have a reasonable income (way above national average) but couldn't pay our mortage and keep food on the table if we were paying school fees. And that's with no foreign holidays, one fairly crap car, no other massive debts (apart from the mortgage). I really don't know how people with more than one child living in the SE do it. Unless they're earning A LOT more than we are and have very, very low housing costs (maybe because someone has given them a house or something).