Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

I do think OP that you should consider talking to your PILs about this, or asking your DH to do so, as neutrally as possible. My DPs constantly talk me up to my DSis and vice versa, and it has caused a lot of jealousy and difficulties in our relationship. But I think they think they are just making conversation. They were astonished when I said it would be helpful if they could stop telling DSis how wonderful my job is etc etc.

I also don't think that generation always realise the difficulties now with some state schools or how polarised, competitive and expensive everything has got, especially in the SE.

Who knows, if they were aware of the situation perhaps they'd offer to pay for those music lessons...

If you give your DCs a good work ethic they may well grow up more resilient than their cousins anyway.

Ok, I'm looking. Show me the private school which takes children with poor academic and behavioural records?

I beg to differ - they have two highly edcuated parents at home who can do alot for them.

TheOriginal - my child was a "failing" pupil from a state school with SEN. Not one parent or child has been anything less than supportive, and the school has bent over backwards to help him and support me in the work I do at home with him. So how does that fit your view of private schools?

Ok, I'm looking. Show me the private school which takes children with poor academic and behavioural records?

Mine - my child had both

And they took him for free, original? Ok, I stand corrected.

As I said, I was referring to OP's post about the schools giving free places in such circumstances.

Yes ds1 had a statement at the first school
The second school said it would look into it and never bothered
His school now haven't needed to as he has flown

No, because it is a fee paying school. It is also, however, a selective school and for a variety of reasons (none of which were due to money) they agreed to take him on. The school has utterly transformed him from being a very unhappy child to someone who has confidence in himself again - as it has many children who were failing in their previous schools (whether private or state)

Keep telling yourself that all private schools are elitist and snobbish. It is as ridiculous as saying all state schools are rubbish and filled with disruptive children

Here's one, Theoriginalsteamingnit. I visited recently while I was training to be a teacher. It was an inspiring place.

westheathschool.com/

Oops that was for TheOriginalLadyFT sorry!

Ah yes, see I was responding to Op's suggestion that assisted places, or scholarhsips, instead of being given to children with proven strong academic records, were given to children who might benefit from a free private education because thus far they haven't thrived. Not whether or not some private schools will take money from all parents.

Argh I was right first time, never mind.

Anyway, I found it interesting that West Heath were managing to educate children well who had been written off by the mainstream.

Assisted places no longer exist. The Labour govt got rid of them

Yermina.

I sympathise with you as we have experienced the same type of thing but not academically. However, you have got options although they may not be the ones you want to take.
My ex bil used to be horrible to me and dh and flaunt his BMW and rich life style, although kids didn't go to private school. It used to upset me so much because we couldn't afford the material goods they bought for their dc and they used to make us aware of this at every opportunity. Material goods however don't appeal to us, but had they done I would have done whatever it took to achieve these things.
If a private education is so important, you either need to be pro active in sourcing the means or give up on the idea.
Being jelous is not a good emotion and will eat you up making you ill.
I am not judging you as I know what it feels like, but do yourself and your kids a favour as they will if they haven't already pick up on this.

Yeah, I think her point was if they did, they could be given to challenging children rather than very very bright ones.

I know some private schools are not academically selective though, yes. And it's great if people feel the service they're paying for is good.

Theoriginal.

New Eccles Hall, Norfolk.

This is a real proper special school. Can't link but google.
Dh worked here many many many years ago, before it got the "New" title, lol.

Instead of offloading kids who disrupt lessons for others in state or private why not special schools where they can specialise in handling these sorts of kids who if left alone will end up hanging around in gangs or worse in prison!

Could this place be an option?

www.christs-hospital.org.uk/

'What people don't seem to get is that you could ban private schools tomorrow and it wouldn't make any difference. People with money who care about their DCs education would set up 'home schooling' groups complete with fully qualified teachers. Or buy houses in the catchment of the best state schools sending prices rocketing and pushing everyone else out of the area. And they'd use tutors to fill any gaps. And those without the money who care would continue to do what they've always done - read with their DC from them being tiny, DIY tutor them at home and move to get the best state option'.

THIS above...so true..in a free society you will never stop parents doing what they perceive to be best for their children, so you shouldn't try. Even under Communism some (party members') schools would be more equal than others lol.

It is however reasonable to campaign for state schools to be brought up to scratch but the fact remains that usually state schools' GCSE results will reflect the deprivation index for the area..why...probably the parental involvement factor...the Universities have been making allowances for years...it is more impressive to get 3 As at A'Level from a mid-range state comp than from a private sector hothouse.

I agree that religious schools should not be allowed to discriminate if in the state sector and I wouldn't choose to live in a Grammar area since in such an area, the Comps are doomed to be sink comps having had the brightest kids creamed off.

Tell MIL to shut up unless she wants to fund said education she raves about for you and lose the jealousy, just make the best of the deal you have been dealt/exploit your options. Good luck.

BTW YANBU it isn't fair but nothing would change if you banned private schools tomorrow.
With healthcare you can argue that if everyone uses the NHS, the NHS system will have higher standards as rich will insist on them but it is much harder for the middle classes to set up their own A&Es than it is their own home schools.

Yermina, how much time do you spend considering how significantly advantaged your children are in relation to some others.

You don't like that other children have advantage over your children, but what about the advantage your children have other others? That matters too.

And it's not like your children have no chance of success in life. They have every chance of being happy and fulfilled and of having a good career.

Yermina Don't assume that ultimately your children will be disadvantaged in terms of their education over their richer peers at private schools. Doubtless with your support your DCs will achieve and then the contextual information on the average results for their school and diagnosed SpLDs will be taken into account and your DCs given credit for their disadvantage in the university admissions process. The reason for that is that DCs who achieve in spite of poor schooling, SpLDs etc. out perform their peers from "good" schools , state and private. They learn a lot about resilience and self motivation, as well as mixing with the diversity of society. Some private school pupils for all their advantages, crash and burn because they do not have those vital skills for life. Universities are learning all the time how to better level the playing field, they may not be there yet but hopefully, politicians allowing, they will. I am sure as an MA and PhD you understand that the will is there.

You should share your feelings with your PILs and ILs. Perhaps the grass on the other side of the fence is not as green as you think, it rarely is. We are lucky that Mum was a teacher so she has never seen the state / private divide as black and white. She has had DCs as well as Grandchildren in both sectors so we discuss the problems and the good things and we are all fond of all the DCs and proud of their achievements. I would hate to have had jealousies get in the way of those relationships.

"I also don't think that generation always realise the difficulties now with some state schools or how polarised, competitive and expensive everything has got, especially in the SE."

I think this is really true.

But I need to just get a bit ZEN over it. I think if my children were happy where they were I wouldn't feel it in the way I do.

I'm feeling very trapped and powerless about the whole thing at the moment which doesn't help.

On another note - I really want to HE. Sadly DH doesn't agree with it, and 'school' seems to be the default mode when two parents can't agree on HE or not. :-(

I may end up HE my sn child one day - secondary schools round here are brutal enough for neurotypical children, let alone kids with asd. I can see big, big problems on the horizon for him in adolescence if other local parents' experiences of secondary provision for sn is anything to go by.

I find the idea that we keep them in mainstream and do loads with them after school problematic. Has been suggested a lot on this thread. We do all the normal stuff - reading, taking them to the cinema and to the theatre when we can afford it (not often). They do martial arts and one ds does piano. But any sort of formal learning is very tough outside of school hours because ds2 who has ASD is so hyped up after and before school, that home is more like a 'holding pen' sometimes. This doesn't leave me much energy and time to doing things with ds1.

Yermina, with a PhD and a Masters between you, surely you and your DH ought to be able to tutor a reasonably bright child to well above 11+ level for grammar school entry?