Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

If you get rid of their charitable status you will remove the option for bursaries. You will be surprised how many kids have them...

And they really will be the perserve of the upper classes!

And I pay for two places for my DS's. Can I have my money back as I am not using them....

"This always upsets me because if you take away their charitable status the only change would be that the children who get bursaries will no longer get them."

Children who get bursaries tend to be the brightest and the best supported children in the entire country. Those are the children who do well in decent state schools, so no need to worry!

Or private schools could just have classes the same size as state schools. Then there would be extra money to cover the costs of educating those who can't afford to pay.

Yermina - I am taking your suggestion that my classes (currently a maximum of 20 in the Lower School, 12 at GCSE and 6 at A Level) suddenly becoming 40+ is a joke? Although it's not really very funny is it....?

One of the worst things state schools did was try and have mixed ability teaching elizaregina - it suits no one and teachers have to teach to the middle thus disadvantaging the bright and the weaker and also imo the middle ability.

Setting is and always has been the best way to teach differing abilities - Grammar schools and Indies have always known this and it is a huge factor in their academic success. Successful differentiation in mixed ability classes is actually impossible to do properly and teachers die in the trying.

Labelled as 'traditional' and therefore inherently evil apparently, setted teaching is what parents tell us time and time again that they look for in Grammars and Indies.

The sister who has chosen a bigger house (and by that I mean one extra bedroom than her previous house, not a mansion!) says the local school is a decent one, and that because both her kids appear to be fairly bright and have no SEN, she thinks they will do OK there. She feels that the extra space in the house, plus the chance to travel, is a fair trade off.

She'd tell me if she was jealous - we're northerners and don't hold back

But you are stating the reasons why you cannot doing something. We all have those reasons and more.... And you dont need to choose banking.... There are plenty of other options but rather than give a raft of reasons why you cannot do something think of a reasons how you can achieve....

Otherwise what's the alternative - give up??

"Or private schools could just have classes the same size as state schools. Then there would be extra money to cover the costs of educating those who can't afford to pay. "

how does that work then?

poozlepants - well if your MIL says that private schools are academically poor then they must all be absolutely crap! Can't believe the amount of nonsense I am reading tonight about private education. It's becoming funny!

countrykitten does setting also mean streaming?

I am not blamimg the PILS but I think they could be a little more diplomatic than to go on about thier other GC's school and success.

writehand - so you had a great private education but would deny that to others...eh?

Yermina
My sons has been to 2-3 schools prior to this prep school. They are 8&9.
We have moved a couple of times because of schools. In a rural county you can't just try another school because there aren't any without moving. I assume they are the brightest as they are scholar material but to assume they'll just do well where ever they are is rubbish. They won't do well if they are being ridiculed by a ta, they won't do well if they are being bullied by other children, they won't do well if they are getting bored and then their parents are told by the head that they have severe behavioural problems and the parents asking for them to be pushed a bit more are making excuses as to the bad behaviour. All things we have had at the various other schools they have attended.

tbh the GPS need to be reigned in anyway and made to be aware of this so ops children dont feel inferior

"And they really will be the perserve of the upper classes!"

The VAST majority of children on bursaries are bright, hard working and come from highly supportive families.

Bright and hard working children with supportive families on the whole do very well in the state sector as long as the state sector is decent. If it's not decent then why on earth should tax payers money (because that's what charitable status provides - the chance for schools to pay less tax) go to allow the children who already do best of all in the state sector, to escape into the private system instead of going towards solving the problems in state education which disadvantage other less bright, less well supported children far, far more.

I'd be all for bursaries if they were used to send children who are failing in state schools, into successful private schools.

Use the money to remove all the really disruptive children from classes who really thrive on good teacher/child ratios, and send them into private schools.

Couldn't agree more tomd - I find this idea that bright children should be left in state schools to help lift the overall experience quite offensive. Some of those children will still do OK but others will be severely disadvantaged by being held back - how in god's name is that fair, seeing as we're talking about fairness?!

wow

You have a Ma, and your DH has a PHD?!

Id say private or not your DC already have a huge advantage over lots of other DC.

Streaming is a much broader based system Saski and loosely puts pupils of the same ability in to large groups. Setting means that pupils are tested in each subject and put in to a set commensurate with their ability at that time. You could be in Set 1 for English and Set 3 for Maths and would receive teaching suited to your level in each subject.

maisie - you are absolutely BONKERS if you think that DH and I could retrain in our 40's to do something that pays a lot better than we do now. We both have professional jobs. But in the SE even people in professional jobs can't usually afford private schooling if they also have high housing costs and other children.

Seriously - you are talking out of your backside.

The only way we could afford private education would be to move into a tent with our children. That would save us the 1K a month it would cost to send ONE of our THREE children to a private school.

Tom - bullied by a TA? That is absolutely appalling.

Swings and roundabouts - the so-called tax breaks that charitable status provides and cost to the tax payer are balanced out by the fact that parents sending their kids to private school still fund a state sector they don't use. I'd wager as well they pay plenty of bloody tax into the system

Yermina - we get that you can't afford private eduation, many people are in the same boat. What do you do proactively to make your children's education better - moaning on here that you are not rich enough will not do them much good.

It was fucking awful kitten. He actually ran out of the school aged 6 or 7 to get away from her. It went to county level with our complaints but the head shit is down as much as she could and though we were told she had been reprimanded, we could never find out much because of privacy/data laws. Anyway by the by

Bet the parents paying at private schools would be delighted to hear their children were to be joined by disruptive or 'failing' children from the state schools! The nurturing and the getting the best out and the pushing and the care don't extend to the challenging pupils. But then it's quite easy to nurture and care for and push and support a bright child or one who's parents are committed to paying £16k a year for its education!

"What do you do proactively to make your children's education better - moaning on here that you are not rich enough will not do them much good."

It's not about what I do with them outside school. Like all loving parents I do what I can.

That makes no difference to the fact that they are disadvantaged in terms of their mainstream education in relation to their richer peers at private schools.

TOSN - try looking beyond your prejudices.