Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

I am sorry Flatbread but the notion that two people on the minimum wage could afford to send their one child to private school is hilarious. Really.

TheOriginalSteamingNit - isn't it nice to read on your link that there may be a tax break for parents of pupils at fee-paying schools seeing as they're paying twice for their children's education? :o

Life is unfair. Instead of comparing yourself to others be happy with what you have got. Lots of people will look at you and be jealous of having a family etc. At least we live in a country where every child has the opportunity to have an education.

I think flatbread probably realises that her one bedroom flat plan is not really a go-er....

imnot sure i would want to put my kids into a private school,the school my kids tried for a bit was a state school was great,it wasnt for us but it was more school life rather than the actual school,how are privateschoolsactuallydifferent?whatactuallymakes them better?iknow youprobably get less riff raff :-) but what else?

Christ, didn't even get started on that choc. What a bloody joke.

bloodyspacebar.

Hmm would the school get some of the tax break then in the case of my dcs as the vast majority of their fee is paid by scholarship and bursaries.

trustissues "private tutoring dominates children?s lives and restricts their leisure times in ways that are psychologically and educationally undesirable.

And it can be perceived in some settings as a form of corruption that undermines
social trust." Oo er missus!

Is the OP's PIL really "rubbing salt in the wound"? elizaregina - from the OP, it merely says she'd heard about her SILs children when visiting her PIL. My mother talks about all her grandchildren to her children, some of which are oprivately educated, some of which are not. She's not rubbing salt in the wound, she's talking about her grandchildren

My siblings would love to send their children to private school - and they tell me so. But not in a "it's not fair way" - one has chosen to live in a bigger house and have foreign holidays which they all enjoy as a family rather than divert resources into private education, the other asked me for advice on how she might start to save for private education at 11+, and also what she can do at home to help her child along

Charitable status for private schools is also utterly ridiculous. Quite a shocker.

I've only managed to wade my way throught half this thread but OP if I were you I would save as much money as you can and get private tutoring if you think your kids need extra support. Quite a few of the parents I know who send their kids to private schools- both secondary and primary are all complaining that their kids aren't on a level playing field because some parents can afford more private tutoring than others. One friend admitted their money would be have been better spent on tutoring instead of school fees.
Not all independent schools are good - my MIL taught at a few and said they had small class sizes and extra curricular activities but academically they were pretty poor.

On that basis is it fair that we have to pay as no decent local state alternative (full?) we are having to pay £8k of a net income for a basic but good private sch with few facilities.. Its way beyond theoretical debate of rights & wrongs of private education (fairly senseless imho). But put it this way, dc2 goes to a crap state school over my dead body when i can pay for something better!

I think some people in UK have a very entitled attitude.

I know of friends in Japan, Mumbai and NY where families of 4 grew up in a one bed (children slept in the living room).

If you really want to give a child a private education, you can. It means cutting back, but it is possible. Some of the top performing private secondary schools have annual fees of £10k. You can find cheaper ones.

It can be done, but it means making major sacrifices. But you can still have a roof, food and heat.

People all over the world do it, what makes us in the UK so soft that we need a bedroom per child? And if you are in a min paid job, forgive me for saying it, but it is probably not such a specialised career track that you have to live in the SE.

"academically they were pretty poor. " ]
I can imagine that - just because your parents can afford a private education doesnt mean you are bright.

In a small class of non bright pupils they will struggle accademically, in a state school there will be all abilites in a larger class so more chance for brighter pupils to be there.
the ultimate in selection is the grammer school where peers WILL be bright regardless of background

"Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry. "

YES PILS are rubbing salt into the wound.

Flatbread, sorry, but you are being ridiculous.

Yanbu, but I would stay away from personal resentment. It just eats you up. I have a DB whose 3 kids are all privately educated and my God it shows! They've achieved much more. One of them plays rugby for the county, another's got into a top university. But I love my DB, his wife and his kids, and there's no point in grieving over what is, after all, a very understandable choice.

Because you're right. Private education, unlike houses & holidays, provides the children who get it with a massive lifelong advantage and the statistics are there to prove it.

My DSs secondary school is supposed to be excellent, but I was privately educated and frankly I am seriously unimpressed by state education. It's so impersonal, and as a parent, there's a huge difference in how much you're told, how much you're respected, to be blunt.

The whole situation has changed dramatically since I was at school. In the 1980s private schools were attended by the kids of doctors, solicitors - professionals. Now, with fees of £20,000 a year per child after tax, the middle classes are priced right out of private education. It's changed the tone of the schools -- and not for the better.

I think public schools should be, if not banned, at least deprived entirely of their charitable status. This would make their fees even more unaffordable.

Flatbread is speaking perfect sense- seen the same myself from living overseas

I disagree - she doesn't weep in front of her PILs or shout "stop, you wicked old biddies, you're rubbing salt into my wound" - she goes home and fumes about it (and rants on here)

You're assuming her PIL know it upsets her

Flat - you are so right. I have missed sports events etc due to work committments but I do get tired of people whinning about how it isnt fair they cannot afford school fees! Well go and do something about it. Go and get extra qualifications. Of course the excuses will come out, I am a single parent, I dont want to move house because all my friends are here, and most importantly I dont want to do the hours!

High paid jobs almost always involve long hours, there are certainly people who refuse to do them (My DS is one and earns less than half of what I do and moans continually!). Well you make your choices. Have one child, pick your man carefully (thank goodness that in this country you do the picking!) and dont complain when things that you have chosen to do dont work out.

I am finding more and more that despite people making daft decisions they wash their hands of their choice and start complaining about other people who are seamingly more 'lucky' than them.

Well learn from your mistakes and move on.

And with an attitude like 'we will never' you never will.....

"I've only managed to wade my way throught half this thread but OP if I were you I would save as much money as you can and get private tutoring if you think your kids need extra support."

Can't afford any more tutoring on top of ds's piano lessons.

It's as simple as that.

TheOriginalLadyFT - if your siblings have the money to afford private school for their dc's but choose to spend it on holidays and a big house, it must be because they already have good state schooling for their children, so no wonder they're not jealous. Or at least, not openly jealous (who knows what's going on in their heads).

I try not to show that I'm jealous of my SIL's children's privileges. I always make a point of asking how they're getting on, show an interest, congratulate them on their successes. It's not hard - they're really lovely kids.

This always upsets me because if you take away their charitable status the only change would be that the children who get bursaries will no longer get them. Children like my ds who has been to three schools prior to the one he goes to now.

writehand that's a rather odd post

Why would you want to price more middle class people out of private education, which previously you said was a change not for the better? Why too would you not want children to have the advantage of a good education?

As as for £20k - my DS's school is £12,000k, we're lower middle class and work long hours to scrape the money together.

"but I do get tired of people whinning about how it isnt fair they cannot afford school fees! Well go and do something about it. Go and get extra qualifications."

What other qualifications are those then? DH has a PHD. I've got a masters degree. The work that I do is well paid, I just can't do much of it because I have to be here for my dc who has special needs.

We live in the South East and can't move because we have elderly infirm parents who need us close by. Also need to be where DH can commute to work.

But maybe you've got a good idea of how we can massively reduce our living costs, and retrain for free in our 40's, then get jobs in banking or something, so that our children can have a reasonable chance of reaching their potential in education?

Do tell!