Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

Seeker I'll almost certainly only have 1, because I can only vaguely afford the lifestyle I want for 1 child, and that includes school fees. Do I make your skin crawl? (And before I get jumped on for being spoiled and materialistic, I specifically mean a life involving interesting travel and the option of interesting and fairly expensive hobbies should child want them, not material posessions.)

seeker isn't the thread really about how poor the OP's state provision is?

bugsy that is exactly what i mean,its not about how clever you are and there is no need to "teach" you dont have to register with anyone or have checks theres a lot of misconceptions

I guess its something you have to already have an interest in to findthese things out,most people just think of sitting at a table all day doing school stuff,in reality its not like that at all, unless you or your kids want it to be..

I started reading this this morning, and knew it would develop into a fair/unfair debate.

Fact of the matter is, we live in a capitalist democracy.

We get paid according to our education, skill set, perhaps entrepreneurial skills. Some people of course inherit money.

You can apply the OPs upset/unfair stance to

housing
medical
schooling
designer clothes
flash cars
holidays

People have the right to choose how to spend their income. They make decisions based on what is important to them and their family.

If the Op chooses to carry the mantle of martyredom then she will make her children feel disadvantaged by their cousins opportunities afforded to them by their parents.

I would point out something that is oft forgotten - those people paying for private school or education are in effect paying twice, they get no tax rebate for subsidising state school places their children don't take up or operations covered by insurance. In Germany you do (or did) get a a reduction in the equivalency of NI contributions for private medical as you reduce the burden on the state system.

According to a report in the Guardian (april 2012) there are over 1/2 million children privately educated. Now what would happen if the have-nots forced all these children into the state sector? Well schools wouldnt cope with the influx. Resources would be at an all time low. Insufficient class rooms to house them. Class sizes would increase dramatically in the short term.

you do need an adult at home all the time though.they might work at home of course,i should of said that,but you also need to make sure you are there for your kids which i think could be an issue if you worked from home and it was demanding.you could both work around each other which could work,but its easier for everyone if its one person at home.

and its not the same as just any mum and dad,in all the families i know that home ed -about 50-only one works from home and she is emigrating to america soon as its too much.

TOSN so what you're actually saying is that you can't make life fair for DC...but you would try to redress the balance by insisting everyone have the same schooling even if that means a worse schooling for some?

Well said, HollyBerry.

i hate this fair un fair thing though,if everyone was really clever and got great jobs and earnt loads of money then where would we be?

Doesn't count hollyberrybush - it's not good enough not to be a burden, by taking your bright child out of the state system you are depriving the others of their uplifting presence, not to mention not helping out yourself by being on the PTA etc

*Do music every day at home - play the piano to the child's instrument on a daily basis, put in the hours as a parent. You cannot simply blame schools.

I worked for 30 years and work 50 weeks a year. I took no maternity leaves*.

If that is the case, where on earth did you personally find the time to "put in the hours".

They both deserve their success.

One thing is to be thankful that our children have a safe home, a roof over their head, aren't hungry, have clean water, free health care, and free and good education - in other words not just comparing with those better off in this country, but also stopping to compare with those worse off, especially in other countries ?

But comparisons within families can be annoying I agree

An undergraduate education in a good university can cost £150k. Most of the people I know start saving

Amber A HE child needs responsible adult supervision, which is the same as any private or state schooled child.
How that is achieved can be done in many different ways. Many home edders including myself are lone parents without respite and unable to be at home all day.

"one that people can choose to 'upgrade to' if they can afford to" - that's not a choice for the majority of the population then.

"Two people on minimum wage can afford to send on child to private school if they cut back on everything else". Flatbread would you like to explain how that's possible?

It is unfair but it would be equally unfair if your SIL couldn't spend her money on education if she so chooses.

We put 2 DCs through private school and for most of that time had far less disposable income than most friends whose DCs went to state schools. Was it fair that they had new cars, holidays and nice clothes that I didn't?

Is it fair that friends in some other parts of the country have access to state schools that are far better than the independent school that was the highest achieving near us yet universities discriminate on the type of school rather than the standards achieved.

You can go on forever OP finding unfairness in life, we all just have to get on with that.

amber thae ideal would be that the state system was upto par with the private sector.

It isn't. I think most of us are probably in the state sector, some in better areas than others, some with access to better schools. But what we are really saying is 'ah, a crap school has disadvantaged people in it I don't want to mix with' - that in its self is snobbery. Opposite with faith schools - if you want a faith education, start believing and join in - if you don't, how about you set up a free school and educate your child with the advantages you want?

People will always be jealous. I often drive past Dulwich College - oh how I dreamed I would have a distant aunty I'd never met to leave me several hundreds of thousands of pounds so I could put my children through there sigh Aint gonna happen though! But I can dream.

But it doesn't mean I think the place should be closed because my child cant access it. If I were driven enough I would have has fewer children, gone for more promotions, but sadly I'm not motivated enough - my aspiration isn't enough.

That is the difference - aspiration. Some people have it, some don't.

That's a good question ami

Where would those children end up if private schools were closed and the children forced to go to state schools? Unless you also legislated that people weren't allowed to move to a better school catchment area (and hey, if we're infringing on people's liberties, let's really go for it) then presumably they would be required to go to their nearest school

Sorry posted too soon.

Most of the people I know start saving from before their children are born and have a serious look at what they can afford while planning children.

This is the norm for the mc in most of the world. Only the very rich and very poor procreate prolifically.

seeker - I have only had two children and one of the reasons for this was that we could not possibly afford to send more than two to private school. Not sure why this makes your skin crawl though....weird thing to post.

"Two people on minimum wage can afford to send on child to private school if they cut back on everything else". Flatbread would you like to explain how that's possible?

Yup, I know someone like this. One child, a one bedroomed flat. Everything was invested in that childs education, at the expense of holidays, takeaways, treats, most things we would take forgranted. I thought that was a little OTT, but those parents felt their child was worth the investment in her future.

Agree flatbread.

Flatbread, people get loans as well as saving to pay for university.