Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

My heart sinks at the thought of all these clever, hard working children being 'skimmed off' and sent to selective and private schools. It makes for a poorer experience for the ones left behind.

So, the bright children who thrive in a selective academic environment should be forced to go to a one-size-fits-all school in order to enrich the experience of those who can't get in to a grammar? Is that any fairer?

The only thing giving a "poor experience" is the quality of teaching at any given school.

Surely any sentient person knows that there are great private schools and less good ones. Its not as simple as private = superior state = inferior. My state school had better results than several of the local private schools, along with lots of activities etc. In some areas I am sure the private schools are eons better than the state alternative. Where I live there are excellent single sex state schools, if we lived in the next city along I would seriously consider private for my DC.

Totally agree with lisac99.

no that book sounds interesting lisac.

I would just like to echo the statement of another poster who said that if all of the kids in state schools actually appreciated and used properly their (free at the point of delivery) state education we would be in very different position to the one that we are now. I can state with confidence that many children come from families who have zero interest in education and who are not bothered when their child merrily wrecks the education of a whole class of children. This and a slack Labour govt (and I voted them in) and then they set about wrecking my profession) have steadily brought some state schools to their knees - and many decent, hardworking and lovely kids have to attend these schools which is a great shame. THAT is what is unfair.

For me the problem is not that the private sector should be abolished but that the state sector should be sorted out and quickly. Private education will always exist as will private healthcare - as long as the state provided alternative is good, why would anyone be envious of how richer people spend their money? Bitterness is not a quality to harbour.

Some of the comments about private ed are breathtakingly ignorant and display more than a hint of envy and blind prejudice about them which is sad. It is almost as if people dismiss them and feel like they should rubbish them simply because they are unable to access them. I teach in a highly selective private school but we have very many bursaries available to the brightest children - has the OP thought of going down that route? Or would it then be 'unfair' because her children may not be bright enough? Question not assumption btw.

Yes on the whole private schools are better but this is for a myriad of reasons and there are some damn good state schools out there doing a bloody fantastic job in spite of the crap that successive govts have thrown at them.

It's unfair that children with ASD (like my ds) won't generally get the educational provision they need to thrive unless their parents have got deep pockets

Bollocks. Children with ASD can do very very well in the state system if there parents can be arsed to get them the help they need via that system.

All you people going on about bright children being "dragged down" by the state system- you do know how very few children are educated privately, don't you? Do you really think that every state educated child leaves school disaffected, qualificationless and dragging their knuckles down to the benefit office?

And good post woozlebear.

Do you really think that every state educated child leaves school disaffected, qualificationless and dragging their knuckles down to the benefit office?

No. Of course I don't because that would be narrow minded and stupid.

chocluvva - going private does not mean washing your hands of the state system at all. Taxes??

"My teacher didn't tell my very hard up mum that I was naughty - because I wasn't, I daydreamed while waiting to turn the page. I wonder what you did."

I fidgeted and was a chatterbox, I would imagine, as when my brain's not engaged my mouth goes into gear some things never change

"You and I are examples of why grammar schools or setting are a good idea - not private schools though"

Why? Private school worked fine for me in my circumstances.

I truly don't see why parents who opt to pay for their child's education are "washing their hands of the state system", anymore than people who choose to pay for private healthcare are "washing their hands" of the NHS. You can believe in a better state system - across all sorts of services - without making your child some kind of sacrificial lamb on the alter of Lefty idealism

Plenty of children do fine in state schools. If ou find it hard to pay for music lessons can you not do that yourselves with them at home? Ours did their music theory exams and singing to grade 8 taught by parents at home - buy a book, do it yourself, or get a theory book from the library. Parental effort can make up for a poor school. Do music every day at home - play the piano to the child's instrument on a daily basis, put in the hours as a parent. You cannot simply blame schools.

Also may be it's your own fault? Why do you earn so little you cannot afford fees? Did you spend your teens going out not getting really good exam results after hours and hours of effort? Did you pick a low paid career? We cannot be jealous of people all the time as it does not make us happy. I worked for 30 years and work 50 weeks a year. I took no maternity leaves. Not surprisingly I earn a lot and pay school fees. Plenty of women mess around at school adn with boys, do not go to university, pick low paid work so they have time to socialise and then whinge when they earn not enough to pay fees.

I think the biggest learning comes outside the classroom.

From the age of 6 onwards I spent 2 hrs a day doing homework and extra assignments. For math and science, it is essential to do lots of daily practice to understand concepts and really learn the subject. Classroom teaching is but an introduction.

I went to a top 5 university in the US. At the undergrad level, there were often 100 students to a lecture. Again, the main learning happened after class. Doing the assignments (and extra work) thoroughly and methodically and following-up with the TA was the single most important thing to mastering the subject and getting good grades

I agree jt is wonderful to get a good teacher who can really communicate her subject, but there is no guarantee of that in a state or private school. The best is to rely on your own system of learning and practice after school.

OP, I am not convinced by the 'unfairness' of the system (though obviously it would be marvellous if all schools were equally fantastic).

However, I do have some sympathy for you.

My children are at private junior schools. If I couldn't afford private schools and was not in the catchment area for a decent state alternative, I would very miserable indeed. However, I would try the following:

Investigate scholarships for anything remotely resembling an aptitude in the children.

Investigate bursaries to go with them.

If I were in the catchment for grammar schools (and you're very lucky if you are), I would coach my children myself. I would make damn sure I knew every possible subject (YouTube has tutorials on all sorts of bizarre school-type things), and I would make even more damn sure I passed this on to my children. I would not be fretting about all the children who've been tutored/privately educated: I would be making sure that mine were the very best they could be.

My DS recently visited a secondary school that we can't remotely afford. He is desperate to go there, and DH and I will find some way to send him there because there is no way he's going to the local comprehensive. So while I understand why you feel the way you do, I think your only real solution is to give yourself a good talking to and find a way to change your/your children's situation if you're not happy with the way it is.

FWIW, we can't afford any extras (music, sport, trips, holidays etc etc etc) as we are paying school fees!

I do find it odd when people say those that use the private system don't care.

I mean most of us here care about children who are looked after by the state. We want good outcomes for them. But we're not about to put our kids in care are we?

And those of us who own our own homes still care that council tenants aren't living in hovels.

Or that pensioners wihtout private income don't starve.

Where does this foolish idea come from?

And I'm not "going on about" children being "dragged down" - that was in response to someone who believes bright children should be kept in state schools to make it a better experience for all the rest - and be damned if that child doesn't achieve their potential as a result

My OH, several family members and most of my friends went to state schools and none of them are "knuckle draggers" - and no-one is saying they are

"Also may be it's your own fault? Why do you earn so little you cannot afford fees? Did you spend your teens going out not getting really good exam results after hours and hours of effort? Did you pick a low paid career? We cannot be jealous of people all the time as it does not make us happy. I worked for 30 years and work 50 weeks a year. I took no maternity leaves. Not surprisingly I earn a lot and pay school fees. Plenty of women mess around at school adn with boys, do not go to university, pick low paid work so they have time to socialise and then whinge when they earn not enough to pay fees."

Bloody hell, xenia hard hat time

Xenia if private schools only took the dc of intelligent well educated highly qualified parents they would be empty.
Money buys such a good education not intelligence.
I look at alot of these dc tbh and see "Tim, rich but dim".

OP you could try and get a music scholarship for a specialist school. My dh said his best pupil ever came from a single Dad who saw his dds talent, they lived on a canal barge but she attended a top boarding school on scholarship. She was obviously the least entitled, very appreciative and really succeded where many others failed.

How is your SIL paying for the private schooling? Did she and her DP work their socks off for the money to pay for it or did it come handed to them on a plate?

Willaby I don't think you're helping by not adding your children, but I do think your unused contribution to the state system helps.

I find the idea that rich parents rocking up and enrolling their children at sink schools would change everything, incredibly patronising. Many crap schools used to be good and have a mixed intake. In those schools generally the MC didn?t just sod of on mass, it was push pull factors.

A school doesn?t become shite through the MC not sending their children, it becomes shite by LEA?s SLT?s deciding, (and governors allowing) to use the easiest, cheapest lowest hanging fruit methods of getting government funding when it has a mixed intake of kids, until it loses everyone that has a better choice, which starts with the MC.

morethapotatoptints - Tim, rich but dim. Really?

11Plustrauma - why on earth does this matter? It's their money and they are spending it how they wish!

Because its less unfair if sil and partner have worked their socks off for it than if the op's in-laws are funding one set of grandchildren to go to private schools and not funding the other set (ie the ops)

Xenia, it is NOT that simple. I went to private school, great uni etc. I did work hard but so do loads of people. I earn about 4 times the national average, even before bonus. I don't work harder or do anything more deserving than most. It's just well paid. It isn't bloody fair and even though it's not fair in my favour I'm not about to pretend it is.

Early life advantage is a huge deal (look at any analysis you like on the benefits of sure start). Yes parents can help fill a gap but they can't do it all.

Who do you have more respect for of these two:
Kid a, privately hothoused in classes of 8-10. Not bright but given buckets of support. Scraped through to humberside university with 2 E's at a level
Kid b, the only kid in his school ever to get an A at A level. Classes of 30. Got 5 grade A A levels and went to top uni.

Both of them work fairly hard. I know which one I think deserves their success more.

Sockreturningpixie Bollocks. Children with ASD can do very very well in the state system if there parents can be arsed to get them the help they need via that system.

Errmm sorry, but equal bollocks in some LEA's. Unless you include using the system all the way to the courts, winning and using court judgements to police daily provision, and scrutinise the LEA, in which case OK, but a bit more than 'can be arsed to get the help they need' is required.