Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

"A few selected poor kids" - 80,000+ children from a wide variety of social and economic backgrounds benefitted!

"I don't see why people object to grammar schools in principle. They are supposed to provide a curriculum that is particularly suited to academically able children and therefore not as well suited to less academic children"

If there was any fool proof and accurate way of working out at 11 which children were actually able to benefit from an academically focused education and which children were just a bit immature, late developers, or the victims of a poor primary education or educationally unsupportive home environment then there would be a better argument for grammar schools.

Unfortunately there's not.

YABU

The biggest determining factor in a child's educational success is the home environment and involvement of parents.

So stop being so bitter and start being positive. Read with your children, help with their homework, take them for interesting days out and talk about it afterwards. Do craft projects with them. Take them to the theatre, to music, to art galleries. Inspire a love of learning. Pony up some cash for music lessons, I don't see why one on one music tuition should be provided to you for free? Take your DCs to sports clubs after school, to cubs and other activities.

YOU can make a huge difference to your DCs outcome and privately educating them or not isn't the factor at play here.

Looking around our friends who were state educated are doctors/lawyers Oxbridge live in big houses. Our privately educated friends are not professional and are struggling financially. At my sisters recent wedding her school friends (blond flicky haired good fun, all with interesting very successful careers) seemed different to her husbands school friends (in the main struggling not having achieved much, under confident). She went to state school he was privately educated.

Its not a golden ticket.

OP, sorry if this has been mentioned upthread but have you checked out the youth music trust or LA music dept in your area? There's normally subsidised lessons and instrument rental on offer. If your DCs' school aren't enthusiastic about music you'll need to do the research yourself. If you are in a city check out the outreach programme of the symphony orchestra, family concerts etc.

"A few selected poor kids" - 80,000+ children from a wide variety of social and economic backgrounds benefitted"

Yes - the very brightest children who are well supported at home. In fact exactly those children who do the best of all children at state schools, and who raise the standards of learning in every classroom they bless with their hard working and lively minded presence!

My heart sinks at the thought of all these clever, hard working children being 'skimmed off' and sent to selective and private schools. It makes for a poorer experience for the ones left behind.

Anyone who has ever spent time in a classroom will know that the more bright and focused people you share your learning space with, the better the standard of education you get.

the thing is it isn't fair.... at all....
however....
we live in a capitalist country and things aren't fair or equal at all.

YANBU to think it's unfair. Maybe YAB a little U in the sense that it sounds like you're focussing on how unfair it is that some fee-paying schools are so good, rather than the fact that some state schools are so awful. That's the real scandal.

I went to private school, and I do get really fed up with the almost universally accepted thought (and I know you didn't say this) that private schools and bad and wicked and elitist, and people who go there and bad and wicked and privileged, and the parents who send their kids there and bad and wicked and snobby. Everyone focusses on that, and, it seems, would mostly be happy if they were banned tomorrow. Few seem to put the same emotion and effort into decrying the state system for ITS part in the huge gap between the two. (Nor, for that matter do I ever hear similar rants about private medical insurance or pensions).

Denmark has a system whereby you get given vouchers for the cost of state education and you can use them at private schools and just top up the difference with their own money. A system like that would eradicate a huge portion of the unfairness.

There is no grammar school anywhere near where we live now. There were no grammar schools in the area where I grew up. They are not available to all children, regardless of whether they could pass the exam to get in, so it is also unfair that your children have the opportunity to get into a grammar school, and mine don't. But I am not going to let it get me down. My girls WILL succeed in a state primary and comprehensive, because I am determined that they will.

Themo, love your attitude Imo, Your children have the biggest advantage compared to others, a positive and determined mother!

Yes - the very brightest children who are well supported at home. In fact exactly those children who do the best of all children at state schools, and who raise the standards of learning in every classroom they bless with their hard working and lively minded presence!

My heart sinks at the thought of all these clever, hard working children being 'skimmed off' and sent to selective and private schools. It makes for a poorer experience for the ones left behind.

I was one of those children - we did not have much money, came from a working class background and my mother was a single parent for much of my childhood.

I'll tell you what happens to children like that - they get held back, inevitably, by the children who need more help and input. My mum was told I was naughty and disruptive at primary school - when she looked into it, turns out I was bored because I was forging ahead and needed more stimulation, but (quite rightly) the teacher needed to tailor teaching to every child in that 30+ class and that meant working to the lowest common denominator.

My heart sinks at the thought of bright children dragged down by a state system. It is not their job to make school a better experience for those "left behind" like some kind of foot soldiers for the left

Themobstersknife That's a brilliant attitude.

YABU.

The government is free to ban privately schooled kids from applying to state grammars as long as they don't have to pay taxes towards it You can't get fairer than that.

We don't have GSs here and the local comps aren't great. So not only do I have to pay lots of tax to finance schools I'm not using, I now have to pay twice for a private education. On top of that i have to listen to you lot go on about how pissed you are at people like me.

If your school is crap then do something about it. Try to get elected as a governor. Volunteer at the school. Organise an afterschool club. Lobby your council and or MP. Do something other than blame your lot in life on me.

Your bitterness is such that you aren't going to go hmmmm Totally has a valid point. So further engagement is a waste of my time so

TheOriginalLadyFT
Well put! So very well put.
So very sad though.

Yamina - you seem to just be focussing on the negative. What about all the after school clubs, what about everything you can do yourself? Nothing in life is handed to us on a plate. Even kids at private schools have to sit exams.

If you really want your kids to go to grammar school, stop thinking about the kids from the private school who may or may not get in - but get the 11+ books from WHSmith & start going through them with your DC. Ask the teacher in his current school if she would be prepared to do any extra lessons, or if they run a lunchtime club for kids who want to try for the 11+. Maybe you could find a few other parents interested & club together for a private tutor after school or on the weekends.

Not all the clever kids are skimmed off - that has to be nonsense. There simply isn't room for all the clever ones to be skimmed off. Check out the results of your local state school - I bet you'll find that they have plenty of students getting A grades.

My secondary school had assisted places. We had children from all economic backgrounds, but you did has to pass the exam. No grammar schools though..

I feel the same Themo I can't see another " succesful" way of feeling and going about it - if you want positive results.

Quoting kerala:
''Looking around our friends who were state educated are doctors/lawyers Oxbridge live in big houses. Our privately educated friends are not professional and are struggling financially. At my sisters recent wedding her school friends (blond flicky haired good fun, all with interesting very successful careers) seemed different to her husbands school friends (in the main struggling not having achieved much, under confident). She went to state school he was privately educated.''

You do realise, your little eloquent anecdote is just that, an anecdote and irrelevant to the discussion?

TheOriginal, I was sometimes bored when I was at primary school too, as I was a very quick reader - not exceptionally clever, especially at maths. We shared reading books and text books, so I was waiting for my partner to finish reading. My teacher didn't tell my very hard up mum that I was naughty - because I wasn't, I daydreamed while waiting to turn the page. I wonder what you did.

You and I are examples of why grammar schools or setting are a good idea - not private schools though.

OP, I see what you mean about entrance exams not necessarily catching the most suitable children, but no system would be perfect.

OP it's not fair, of course it's not.

But is it any more unfair than your DC having a loving, supportive, articulate mother when so many DC do not have that advantage?

Life is not a level playing field. It never will be thus. No point in letting it corrode you or passing the corrosion on to your DC. Instead concentrate on what you can do for your DC.

"If your school is crap, do something about it..." - the OP is trying to start a PTA.

Anyway, buying a private education is doing the opposite - it's washing your hands of the state system.

Sorry rollmopses hadnt realised you were in charge of the discussion doffs cap. I think it is relevant - of course anecdotal but the OP was feeling miserable I wanted her to understand that a state education does not mean you cannot succeed in life. How rude you are.

Has anyone read the book 'freakanomics?' it basically demonstrated that the school your children attend actually has very little to do with how well they do in life compared to what the parents are like and oddly, how many books they have in their house . I'm assuming that's something to do with 'More books = more educated parents' if I remember correctly.

That's why I was pointing out the downside of private schools for some of their pupils too, kerala - we don't seem to be making the OP feel any better though.

Imagine spending £150,000 putting your son through Eton and he drops out at age 18. How unfair would that be!