To be bloody furious with 5yo dd, and be on the verge of tears over this?

[Lowla]

I'm so angry! Been feeling like this since i picked up dd from school, and i'm just getting angrier with her.

Last month, i sent her into school with a week's dinner money in her new purse. Comes out at hometime telling me i forgot to give her dinner money. The purse is gone, as is the money. No one's seen it nor handed it in. So the teacher told me the school made her up a little sandwich for free.

I've told dd she's not allowed school dinners again, and will have to take packed lunches. She's upset about this because school dinners sit separately from packed lunches, and her 'best friend' is always school dinner.

Today she had P.E. I sent her in with her kit and new shoes.

She comes out at hometime saying i forgot to pack her p.e. kit. Everything was missing. Finally managed to track down her shorts and top in the classroom but her new shoes are gone (they cost me £25!). She says she lost them before P.E and she had to do it in her school hard shoes instead.

I've now had to go and buy a cheap pair of trainers for £5 from ASDA, which don't fit properly because she's a half size, and i had to go into my food budget for them.

She just doesn't give a shit. She has ASD and she just keeps saying 'oh well. never mind. we'll just buy new ones.'

I honestly feel like punching a wall. I realise i'm being totally irrational, but it's the lying that accompanies the losing stuff which pisses me off most. Her teacher claims dd told her that i forgot to pack her gym stuff today. DD also told them last time i gave her no dinner money. In the school's eyes - it's me that's forgetting stuff, not DD.

Since she started school, she's managed to lose a tie, a pair of glasses, a pair of gym shoes, a filled pencil case, her dinner money and purse, her new trainers, her blazer. And i've only got half of the stuff back, despite it being labelled.

Argh! She's in the next room loudly drawing a picture and saying to herself, "This will sure cheer mummy up! Her favourite - a butterfly!"

Dreading her coming in to give me it, because i'm really still angry with her and i'll end up hurting her feelings.

I'm at the end of my tether with her. I can't keep buying her replacement stuff, but what other choice do i have? She NEEDS a tie, she NEEDS a blazer etc etc etc. I'm just so angry with her!

Christ almighty! You lot are something else.

DD was very much bissfully unaware, thank you. I was very cross with her and was worried she'd pick up on this when handing me her picture (which she does everyday by the way - so please don't make out she was trying to 'placate' me - she wanted her tv show on). I still loved it though, as she's a very talented drawer, and it's hung up on my cork board. I took it and said thank you. I didn't rip it from her and tell her to F off. When she got annoyed i still wouldn't put the TV on, she got cranky so i sent her into the other room because i felt myself getting angry again. I didn't want to look or listen to her whining.

How dare you suggest you know my daughter better than i do. She wasn't a trembling wreck next door. She was singing away, drawing happily. She had no idea i was angry. I'm pretty certain she knew i wasn't happy about her losing her things though and 'embellishing' about her teacher, as i had told her so. Whether or not it sunk in is another matter.

And i'm sickened at the way autism is being so disrespected on here. It's insulting to parents like me who had to wait 18months on a professional diagnosis, after a series of observations, reports and interviews. Yet you lot seem to think that because a mum was having a rare bad day, she's possibly autistic. Anger does not equal autism. My dd is actually autistic and rarely angry.

We always get strange looks in ASDA! usually i just smile and stop and explain dd has autism, which is why she's behaving 'strangely' but yesterday i couldn't be arsed. I was controlled and firm when telling off dd. "Don't run away, dd." "Stop running away, DD", "Come here right now and try these shoes on, DD" "It's not my fault they don't fit properly, or feel the same as the old ones, DD, you need new trainers." Hardly screaming. So please don't make such assumptions.

And i didn't thrust the old lady's trolley out the way, to whoever implied that. She wasn't budging it. She could clearly see me. But she was too busy gabbing. DD was dying for the loo. Instead of just standing there and smiling, "Excuse me" for a millionth time, i moved it myself. And the old lady tutted at me. Actually can't believe i have to explain that. You lot have some imagination if you think there was some sort of showdown between me and a random pensioner.

Anyway, i came on here for a rant rather than bottle it up and pretend i was okay. Because i really wasn't. I felt like shit and had no one to talk to. I do not have an anger problem. I do not have autism. I do not bully my daughter.

Thanks for the messages and constructive replies. Especially the ones in agreement with me that people on this thread are lying to themselves if they can honestly say they've never felt angry with their kids before.

The only difference is you've probably got friends/family or a DH to talk to about issues, whereas i posted on here instead. Thus stupidly inviting a lot of strangers to cast judgments on me and my daughter.

Went into school office today. Found the purse (With no money in it - keychain broken), but nothing else. They reckon another child took home the shoes by accident. I've asked the teacher if she can try and make sure dd remembers her kit in future, perhaps double check after they get dressed. I've also told the office i'll be handing money in in future to them. Office lady said she'll have to see the head about it, it's not her place. I just shrugged and said dd isn't capable yet of looking after money.

Have written a note in dd's SALT diary to request a meeting and help with dd's 'embellishments' as they're beginning to really irritate me. I asked if we can get togetheer to devise some sort of strategy.

Also really looking forward to the Hanen programme. Will be the first time i've met other parents in RL who have a child with HFA. It'll be good to talk to people who actually understand and can talk about their own experiences/strategies.

I realise that dd is not NT at all. One of my friends has a nephew on the lower end of the spectrum. Which is why they are in denial about dd, because compared to him, she appears very much NT. They don't know much about the high functioning end at all, and have somehow convinced me that the doctors and reports and SALT have got it wrong about dd.

My parents also deny she has autism because she has such a good emotional range, she's so animated and social. She doesn't sit and rock in corners etc.

Ridiculous.

And i'm angry on dd's behalf actually at how it's become taboo to discuss her issues and autism in RL with friends and family. I hate the looks i get whenever i dare to mention her stuttering is getting worse, or that people called her a horrible name on the bus because of her stimming. I can't tell them what it's like to not be able to walk through a supermarket without getting loads of strange looks because dd will stop and sing at the top of her voice if her fave song comes on, or if she'll insist on going round the aisles and pick up items that have fallen from shelves, or when she asks all large people if they have babies in the tummy, or when she stops and flaps her arms whenever she sees a full, neat shelf of cans.

"Oh, she'll grow out of it. I did that when i was little, and i've turned out normal. She's just quirky."

No support or understanding at all. So i think i've just been trying to convince myself they're right. It's acceptable to discuss these issues with them as long as i acknowledge they're nowt to do with autism. They're just quirky things, which i should learn to laugh about. I think last night was a wake up call for me. They aren't just quirky things. They're down to her being autistc. She really is autistic. I probably won't have a normal experience with dd in the supermarket. She'll probably always get excited about seeing canned soup in neat lines, and get upset when there are gaps in between (or heaven forbid something's out of stock and there's a large space where said items should be).

I doubt i'll ever be able to just walk around the shops, holding dd's hand and having a proper conversation with her.

So i should stop watching other mums doing this with their dds. I should stop being jealous and resenting the fact (not resenting my daughter) that i'll never get to experience this.

I shouldn't get embarrased when dd pleads to go and 'see the cans' and stands there stimming for five minutes. I shouldn't feel the need to explain her actions to everyone that passes by and stares. I should accept and appreciate that dd finds so much joy out of something that many people consider to be normal.

Crying a bit here. My dd is so gorgeous and amazing. She's unique. Why would i want her to be 'normal'? I've had to go to all her meetings, appointments, panel interviews on my own. And i get nervous really easily, and intimidated. All these older, mature, professional women at these meetings telling me about my daughter, and asking me what she's like at home etc. I would love to have had someone by my side at just one of those meetings. Someone that would have given me the courage to speak up a bit more and not just go along with whatever they say. e.g. - i was concerned about dd making friends when she entered school as she was coming from a special nursery. I brought this up in the initial meeting with the school which on the panel had class teacher, head teacher, depute head teacher, 2 random people i've never met, 2 people from SALT and her pediatrician.

Their reply was 'she'll be fine. Staff will keep an eye on her."

Turns out she was fine after a few weeks of settling in, but i wish my concerns would have been taken more seriously. If i had my mum or sister there that day, i feel as if i'd have been able to be firmer.

To summarise - i suppose i've never felt able to discuss my daughter before with anyone. I've not been allowed to. I've felt forced to be embarrassed about her autism and to pretend that she's just quirky - this has been the only way i'm allowed to discuss her mannerisms in RL.

It's just awful not being able to talk about things dd does that i'm confused about or find annoying. E.g. Why does she only like leggings? Why does she say denim hurts her?

According to my mum, it's because she's fashonable... Not because she might have sensory issues.

So, yes, i think i would benefit from posting time to time on SN board. But i think i'll benefit most from being able to discuss dd's autism with real people who are in both our lives, such as grandparents. But i don't think that's going to happen any time soon tbh. Which is why i'm looking forward to meeting parents at the Hanen programme instead.

Wow, i've sort of treated this post like a journal. Didn't mean to bore you all to tears.

if you don't mind, i'll be ignoring all posts that try and diagnose me with a complex disorder such as autism, or suggest i have anger issues, or that i'm a child abuser. I find them really arrogant and stupid. I would never presume to make such suggestions based on a stranger's internet thread.

Thank you very much for the constructive replies. I feel they've really helped clear my head and realise i ought to find RL people to discuss HFA with. And it would be good for dd to mix with other children who are more like her. There's an autism club in the next town for kids. They organise days out etc. however, it's the one my friend's nephew attends. And i think it's full of kids on the lower end of the spectrum. In order to get a place, the guy running it has to come out for a home visit and see where to place your child on the waiting list. I guess they put priority on the ones who need it more - i.e. the ones with no social skills. Worth a shot, i suppose though.

FWIW - i do cuddle dd every day, as someone implied earlier i don't and thought i used cuddles as praise. No - 'bear cuddles' are used for praise. Which is a cuddle and a spin around the room.

Which i feel an overwhelming urge to give her twenty of when i see her later.

Hi, I hope you are feeling better today? I take it dd's dad doesn't have any contact? Have you any rl friends who support you? If not then I think that group would be a good idea if only for you to have some support.
definitely use the sn section as posters will understand your situation more.
like I said earlier, I don't understand asd but I can understand your frustrations and feel for you trying to cope on your own.
Please let us know how you get on.

i,m glad you replied back op i felt very teary reading that but i,m afraid the internet is full of remarks terrible ones and some are useful its hard to read between the lines when people do a post people are going to jump on the bangwagon slaite a person without understanding glad you posted more of a understanding there very sorry that the op is getting judged it must be so hard for the op trying to understand a child with autism. and being thrown a life u diden,t expect try handling that on a daily basis i feel for the op where the child likes whering leggings but people won,t understand she could be hurting and the coments she is is that the child has great fashion sense that must be hard. hope you dont get put of posting again op some mumsnetters on here are a greatbuch with great advice others there following the sheep. and wearing judgypants

OP, all I can say is that I think I understand. My DD is different to yours, but similarly difficult sometimes, and certainly an embellisher. She makes up whole stories to explain why she is doing something naughty. And sometimes I am so mad with things I could explode and other's I just want to accept her the way she is and have other people do the same. Please use SN boards.

Another mum here with a DD who has autism. I completely get where you're coming from, please ignore all the unhelpful judgmental people who have posted on here. My DD is now 14, when she was 5 I wasn't coping well at all. I was still reeling from a fairly recent diagnosis, grieving for the 'normal' child that I had lost, and struggling to understand why on earth she did the things she did. The thing that got to me most was the relentlessness of it - day after day with never a break. It gets to the point where you have to vent, and it may seem OTT to some people but doesnt mean that you're abusing your child for God's sake. It has got easier with time - I understand her a lot better and she says that I'm her best friend. Someone upthread mentioned something about them being exotic and unique - that's exactly it - you have to start an in-depth and life-long study of your own child. My suggestion is to expect the unexpected and never compare her to other NT children her own age. She isn't going to have the same motivations or reactions as them.

I found the NAS very helpful, they have regular meetings in my area. Although I know it's difficult to get away if you work and have no support at home. Do you have a social worker? I get a couple of nights respite a month, and an outreach worker who takes her out every week, but you will need a SW in order to access this type of support. You really need to have a break from it particularly if you have little RL support, so that is something well worth looking into.

OP our local NAS group will even allow you to be involved while waiting for a diagnosis, never mind how severe child is. I agree that meeting other local parents going through the same stuff will be a real lifeline, I don't know what I'd do without it. It is also very affirming for both me and DS to see others like him, all ages and stages and know we are not alone.

Do stand firm on the dinner money with the head, they do have to alter policies to help your DD and this will be one of them it's tough if they don't like it.

Hope you have a better day with your DD today, and do pop over to the SN children board, lots of support in there.

Lowla, that was an incredibly moving post. I'm glad you're thinking of popping over to the sn board. Most of us have felt isolated at some point. I have a very supportive family, but I can clearly remember the frustration at being told 'boys just take a little longer' etc when I knew there was something very wrong.

Good luck getting some support together, it sounds as though you've had a very productive morning .

Have a now.

Your post made me cry Lowla - I also have a family who are convinced there is nothing 'wrong' with DS and it's all in his teacher's imagination.

I hope you get the support you need IRL

Kiriwana: "That's how DS's school have referred to autism in relation to him and it's a term they use on the autism website so not sure why you've pulled me up on it"

Because OP said her DD has been diagnosed with HFA. High Functioning Autism doesn't indicate the presence of learning difficulties as far as I'm aware - it's the speech delay version of Asperger's Syndrome, which the DSM-IV's criteria for diagnosis includes normal to high IQ (as does HFA). I don't think your school are necessarily the authority on autistic spectrum conditions, and of course your child will not be the same as OP's child. Yours may well have learning difficulties.

NAS may well refer to learning difficulties on their website. They also refer to some co-morbid conditions and other problems associated with autism. Doesn't mean they always go together.

I don't think you should presume every person with an ASC has learning difficulties, which you seemed to be doing. Sorry if I have offended you by mentioning it.

Nice one Op - you sound like you've sorted it and given the school what for.

I would be struggling to cope in your position especially without family support. I'm really impressed.

Take care.

I only read the thread today but here's what I think. I think you are very angry indeed - you are angry about your DS diagnosis and you're angry with your family about the complete lack of support and understanding you and your daughter have been shown.

That is completely fine. You have a right to feel that way. Getting a diagnosis sucks. Getting told it's all a lot of nonsense by the people close to you sucks more.

However, what happened last night was that anger boiled up and became directed at your DD's behaviour. You did the right thing though, by coming and venting on here. But you MUST get some proper support and strategies in place to help you understand and work through that anger, and eventually park it in a place where it can't hurt either of you.

Does that make sense? I am truly not judging you. I have been in your shoes. But if you don't find a way to deal with your emotions they will come back and bite you in a way you don't like.

FWIW school also need to support with things like planning and organising as well as the other stuff they seem to be doing. If she needs a TA she needs a TA. The budget for that is quite simply not your concern.

The 'lying' stuff - a few things spring to mind. 1) the questions you are asking her aren't setting her up properly to give you the 'correct' answer so she's filling in the blanks (Hanen will help enormously with this)
2) was she a late talker? Do you see talking as 'a good thing'? My DS was late and we so overpraised and enthused about all his communication attempts that he now uses talking as a tool to get out of stuff he doesn't want to do.
3) Control is a really big thing for children with ASD. So she's thinking about unicorns and you interupt her with a question about her teacher and she says 'she came to school on a unicorn today.' That is essentially her attempting to control the conversation and keep it on her own agenda. She's not lying in the sense that we understand lying. She's trying to stay in control.

Anyway, this is turning into a monster post. Come over to special needs, we're very nice. But make sure you get the help you need to disappate the anger you rightly feel too, please.

You need more support form the school - they are not being helpful, an ASD child needs more help and so do parents of ASD children, because they have such a tough time.

The lunch money policy is utterly stupid - and I'd tell them so.

It must be sooooooooooooo frustrating that your family can't see or are in denial about her hfa.

Have you tried getting them a book about it, printing something off the internet or a leaflet or something? Im not sure which professionals you have to see in regards to your daughter but i was wondering if they might be able to help with advice or something you could pass on to your parents? They have probably seen this before.

My inlaws reacted very strangely once when i asked about one of their little relations who was delayed. They bit my head off and said there was nothing wrong with the child. There clearly are issues and the professionals agree. I don't understand those reactions.

You might need to be very firm with your parents when they say she's just quirky. Tell them to stop saying that! They don't know what they are talking about, she's been assessed by several professionals who know what they are talking about! If they continue to talk bullshit you won't want to be around them!

Great post Wilson

Ds2 is completely unreliable in his general conversation for multiple reasons, none of which are lying in the conventional sense.

I had years of not recognising that he was ill or hurt because he wouldn't tell me and if I said 'are you feeling sick Pagboy' he would say 'no. Not sick'
He had a broken collar bone and couldn't tell us for two days. He was in enormous pain but still said he was fine.

It was a mixture of anxiety and fear. He didn't want medicine and he was frightened by being in pain so wanted to shut down the conversation.

I have loads of examples of completely false responses for reasons that are everything to do with his autism and nothing to do with being a liar.

It is very hard to deal with but we have it cracked now. He is lovely. We can talk now. I just have to be very clear in how I phrase my questions.

That lowla was a lovely reply yes we ave been in your position and still are. Dd 5 as ASD and dev delays and is probably on the middle range of te spectrum, very intelligent and very immature socially an emotionally though making very good progress at her Autistic school. Yes op I have been in your position, esecially when her she was a lot younger pre dx and pre interventions when her behaviour was ultra challenging. I was so angry with her as ad used to shou and scream at her (cathartic for me), since intervention and dx things have improved greatly and since going n the Hanen course ( highly recommended). Am so ashamed o how I was as a mother with my anger sues I don't want to think of those dark days and look forward be the best mum I can to both my dcs.

As dd has gotten older matured, had salt intervention her communication and understanding has improved an he behaviour has calmed down and I am actually enjoying her. I would strongly recommend te sn board they are fab on there. Yes I would ut my foot down with the school you did right to tel, them tat a 5 year old cannt be fully responsible for their dinner money nor should they be, see the hT if possible. Your dd cannot be fully responsible for her things eten she is just a very young child, te school should beare some responsibility for things going missing. You actually sound lik a lovely person who is having a very hard time right now with nobody to talk to p. I was a bit at those posters who suggested you had Autism arm Chair psychology at its best. Teir are some very goo advice on here fro posters in the same position so please tak tim to read them

I have loads of examples of completely false responses for reasons that are everything to do with his autism and nothing to do with being a liar That's it in a nutshell Pag. So to think of him with a broken bone and not being able to tell you.

I felt dreadful Wilson.

What I have to do is ask a kind of trick question.
I have to say 'you are hurt Pagboy' .
If he isn't ill/sore he will say 'all better'
If he says nothing then I have to offer him options - 'is it your head or your tummy' then he tells me or let's me keep guessing until I get the right one. But it has to be either x or y. If I just say 'is it your throat' he will deny it.

It's like sodding House

Lowla

What a lovely post, its clear you really value your DD for who she is.

My 2 are dyslexic and DS2 (aged 5 but Yr1) got 0/10 for his spellings last week. He told me he forgot his score, that he got full marks, that the teacher made a mistake, that the spelling list was wrong etc. It was his way of dealing with feeling like he had not done well / made a mistake - he was telling it how he wanted it to be. I wasn't bothered at all (and had already told the school at his IEP meeting that I wasn't going to make a big deal about spellings). In his case the problem was that I hadn't supported him in the way he needed, he needs to go over things a lot for them to stick. In your DD's case, I don't think the school is supporting her in the way she needs.

I think it is really positive that you are looking for real life support. It must be hard when your family don't want to accept your DD's diagnosis.

Pagwatch. We are the same with DS2, he will appear a bit 'off' and I start from the top down to try to figure out what's wrong. It is even more complicated if it is an emotional problem, can't wait for adolescence .

Lowla, I really think this will be a turning point for you.

I'm outing <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=www.celebitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/hughlaurie.jpg&imgrefurl=www.celebitchy.com/166504/hugh_laurie_for_loreal_mens_skincare_perfect_or_not_a_believable_spokesperson/&h=351&w=468&sz=37&tbnid=_lg3igvbzwUMDM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&zoom=1&usg=__mmd4Wc8Xj22nGQItAsyFJeZrMxo=&docid=3jCLY1GRGgofyM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lK8LUa-4PMWt0QWdvYHoDg&ved=0CFoQ9QEwBw&dur=366" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Pag

Seriously though, OP do you see how Pag structures her conversation to allow her DS to answer her appropriately? It's sometimes called scaffolding. Again, Hanen will really help you with it.

wow, how wicked are you? She's five. I feel sad reading this to be honest.

Hi. Blimey, don't have time to read the whole thread but just read your mega post above. Defo post on the special needs boards and if not, just read the, life saving info in there. There are some good blogs about, Life with an Autistic Son (b's dad) is excellent, in fact I think it was that blog that inspired me to go for diagnosis, his son sounded so similar to mine. You have a diagnosis, that's great, so you don't need to doubt yourself. She has autism. You didn't cause this but you can look for ways to deal and cope and understand her. I just got my son's diagnosis today. He is same age as your daughter. My family have been shi*e but it doesn't matter. I am concentrating on him. I suspect I am a lot older than you but yes, it is daunting sitting in a room with several professionals, I am still trying to get used to it. I think it will get a tad easier after my news today. You're going through a rough time, try to find time to take stock of everything. It is bloody unfair, I feel like this too, but things are getting a bit easier. See you on the SN board :-)

Kaekae
Have you read the whole thread because your comment is way off the mark.

wicked - don't be silly