To be bloody furious with 5yo dd, and be on the verge of tears over this?

[Lowla]

I'm so angry! Been feeling like this since i picked up dd from school, and i'm just getting angrier with her.

Last month, i sent her into school with a week's dinner money in her new purse. Comes out at hometime telling me i forgot to give her dinner money. The purse is gone, as is the money. No one's seen it nor handed it in. So the teacher told me the school made her up a little sandwich for free.

I've told dd she's not allowed school dinners again, and will have to take packed lunches. She's upset about this because school dinners sit separately from packed lunches, and her 'best friend' is always school dinner.

Today she had P.E. I sent her in with her kit and new shoes.

She comes out at hometime saying i forgot to pack her p.e. kit. Everything was missing. Finally managed to track down her shorts and top in the classroom but her new shoes are gone (they cost me £25!). She says she lost them before P.E and she had to do it in her school hard shoes instead.

I've now had to go and buy a cheap pair of trainers for £5 from ASDA, which don't fit properly because she's a half size, and i had to go into my food budget for them.

She just doesn't give a shit. She has ASD and she just keeps saying 'oh well. never mind. we'll just buy new ones.'

I honestly feel like punching a wall. I realise i'm being totally irrational, but it's the lying that accompanies the losing stuff which pisses me off most. Her teacher claims dd told her that i forgot to pack her gym stuff today. DD also told them last time i gave her no dinner money. In the school's eyes - it's me that's forgetting stuff, not DD.

Since she started school, she's managed to lose a tie, a pair of glasses, a pair of gym shoes, a filled pencil case, her dinner money and purse, her new trainers, her blazer. And i've only got half of the stuff back, despite it being labelled.

Argh! She's in the next room loudly drawing a picture and saying to herself, "This will sure cheer mummy up! Her favourite - a butterfly!"

Dreading her coming in to give me it, because i'm really still angry with her and i'll end up hurting her feelings.

I'm at the end of my tether with her. I can't keep buying her replacement stuff, but what other choice do i have? She NEEDS a tie, she NEEDS a blazer etc etc etc. I'm just so angry with her!

Op a few things that may help.

Buy some Velcro tape, make laminated cards mark them mon- fri write on each card the things needed on each day draw a box next to each item.on the bottom of each day have to sign lines one with your name under one with hers. Then laminate the cards on each corner on th ack of the card stick some Velcro on her school bag stick the other side of the Velcro and then sew round the Velcro on th bag ( poppers can also work if you have one of those popper putter on gadgets)

Each day or night before bed you and dd add into your routine the bag list check and tick dd ticks box as item is added to bag and both sign on the lines ( use white board markers as they wipe clean daily,you do the wiping not dd) when all boxes are ticked.

Voila you have a factual list readly available to show you dd and school that yes all items were present and correct.

That starts each day with everybody knowing whats where and when. Removes the lie factor as if dd does say it wasn't there you calmly say " look dd it was,you signed the list"

Arrange a different method of paying for school dinners point out that the school have a legal obligation to make the whole school day accesable to dd whil accomadating her disability this means accepting a different method of payment for her dinners.

Get a notepad and use it as a home school link info book and in it write stuff you want to bring to the attention of the school, if you require a phone call or wish to arrange a meeting use that to do so.

That skull was exactly what I was trying to explain. Thank you for putting it better than I did .

I think littlemisssarcastic has raised some very valid points.

I hope the OP can look at this thread tomorrow, or another time when she's feeling more collected, and see many of the posts for what they are; concern for her and her daughter.

Read this with interest
Lowla I bet this'll be the last time you vent on here- judging by the reactions! We've all had really crappy days, and when feelings are running high we just type how we feel. I bet there's not a single one of us who hasn't felt intense frustration with our children. That includes all those on here who have been most critical. We just haven't posted about it.
Best thing is to have a good niight's sleep- tomorrow is another day.
FWIW our school expects children to bring in dinner money (cash or cheque), in their own purse. Each class has to visit the dinner lady on Mon morning to pay for their week's dinner. I think for the younger ones the teacher collects in all the purses to make sure they aren't lost, but it would be easy for another little one to pick up the wrong one. They are young to be doing this but a compassionate teacher should recognise those who struggle with the process. I'm sure a quiet word with her teacher will help.

For the lost 'stuff', in future, Sharpies are your friend. Coat? Sharpie the name on the lining, right across the inside of the back, 3 inches high. Shoes and trainers? Sharpie the name on the tongues. Pencil Case? Sharpie on the lid AND base, AND on every pen, pencil and rubber.

Just sharpie EVERYTHING.

And as for this school's frankly barmy policy of asking 5yo's to hand in a week's worth of dinner money? I mean, WTF?! Even an NT 5yo is going to struggle MASSIVELY with that, let alone one with ASD.

Challenge that, and either hand the money to the teacher yourself, explaining that you cannot afford for your DD to lose it again, or go to the office and hand it in, saying the same.

Hand all PE kits to the teacher if you are not allowed to hang them on their pegs yourself.

Buy cheap. Buy pencils in bulk.

And most of all, accept that your DD has ASD, and that WILL cause her to have additional needs in certain areas - organisation and keeping tracks on her 'stuff' being just one of them.

And accept that, no matter what you do, things WILL get lost.

Even when they are 15, if they have ASD.

It is part and parcel of having a DC with ASD, getting angry about it won't stop her from losing the things, OP, it will only make YOU stressed, and her confused as to why you are angry with her. Especially for something that she can't really help doing.

For the lost 'stuff', in future, Sharpies are your friend. Coat? Sharpie the name on the lining, right across the inside of the back, 3 inches high. Shoes and trainers? Sharpie the name on the tongues. Pencil Case? Sharpie on the lid AND base, AND on every pen, pencil and rubber.

Just sharpie EVERYTHING.

And as for this school's frankly barmy policy of asking 5yo's to hand in a week's worth of dinner money? I mean, WTF?! Even an NT 5yo is going to struggle MASSIVELY with that, let alone one with ASD.

Challenge that, and either hand the money to the teacher yourself, explaining that you cannot afford for your DD to lose it again, or go to the office and hand it in, saying the same.

Hand all PE kits to the teacher if you are not allowed to hang them on their pegs yourself.

Buy cheap. Buy pencils in bulk.

And most of all, accept that your DD has ASD, and that WILL cause her to have additional needs in certain areas - organisation and keeping tracks on her 'stuff' being just one of them.

And accept that, no matter what you do, things WILL get lost.

Even when they are 15, if they have ASD.

It is part and parcel of having a DC with ASD, getting angry about it won't stop her from losing the things, OP, it will only make YOU stressed, and her confused as to why you are angry with her. Especially for something that she can't really help doing.

OP, I've had one go at giving you some ideas for next steps. Now I would like to very strongly suggest you watch this short video clip called Truth, Fibs and Lies it will give you a feel for why your DD might lie and some tools to cope with it.

When you've watched that video, you might like to explore the rest of www.parentchannel.tv as they have also sort of support and advice on coping with the tough times that parents and children experience.

Please take a moment - it's only a click away .

OP - as a general rule of thumb, a DC with ASD will function at around 2/3 of their chronological age.

I have 3 on the spectrum, and this rings true for all of them - my DD is almost 15, but functions socially and emotionally at more of a 10yo's level. My DS2 is 9, and socially and emotionally is far more like a 6yo. My DS3 is 24mo, and functions far more like a toddler of around 16 months old.

My Dbro also has Aspergers, and the 2/3 thing works for him - at 21 he functions socially and emotionally like a 15yo.

I would hazard a guess that if you look at an average NT 3 - 3.5yo, your DD will be acting far more like them than like her peers.

Give it some thoughts about whether you would expect a 3.5yo to know where the line between fantasy and reality is, whether they understand the impact of untruths are, whether they understand the impact of losing 'stuff', whether an NT 3.5yo could be expected to be responsible for money?

The answer is probably not.

And it doesn't matter how well she is doing academically, either - my Dbro is currently in his final year at Uni, on course to get a First in Environmental Sciences.

He has spent his rent money on pizza so many times this term that my mother has had to take a loan out to pay his rent, he has lost the £££ special laptop provided by the disabled student people, lost his card to get back into halls, lost ONE of his trainers...the list goes on and on, but he is a 21yo with the emotional and social maturity of a 15yo, trying to cope in a 21yo's world.

He gets so frustrated with HIMSELF now (though that's a new development, only about two years ago...) that he can't do these things.

But it's part and parcel of ASD's, IMO and IME.

OP, reread the thread in a coupe of days time. There's a lot of useful and constructive suggestions in amongst the shock and anger.
You need support, the school rules need to be adapted to accommodate your DD's sn and you need to recognise that, as has already been stated, her perceptions and responses are not NT.
I've said this before, but...
I have a pet. If I wanted it to bark, fetch a ball and go walkies with me, I'm on a losing wicket. Because it's a cat.
So I have to appreciate what my cat has to offer instead of constantly getting frustrated and angry about its lack of doggy skills. Because the nature of the beast won't change.

Stop fighting and analyse what she is, study her like some rare exotic rather than assuming she should respond like a mundane. She won't and isn't, and that will just increase the challenge you face until you recognise it and work with what you have.

Oh, and Bobyan?

'She just doesn't give a shit
I honestly feel like punching a wall
I'm at the end of my tether with her
Argh! I can't stop crying! I'm actually shaking with anger
I feel like screaming!
DD is clumsy and a compulsive liar
I know this is going to keep happening and happening

FOR FUCK SAKE GET SOME HELP, I have never felt like this about my kids the very fact you feel like this and think about your DD like this is horrible.'

I've felt and done a lot of these things about DS over the last 18 years, living with a child on the spectrum can be very challenging indeed, and it is forever. What is the alternative for the OP? She can't rehome her DD like a cat. So she'll have to find a way of coping.

Finding a way of coping is the help she needs to get.
For herself.

She needs to get help for herself in managing her own stress, frustration, emotions and behaviour.

I have two children with autism, I have a different perspective on the lying, maybe it fits with your dd too.

My two know the rules of conversation, they know that you take turns, you listen and answer the questions. What they aren't so good at is knowing when to say " I don't know" (although at 17 ds has grasped this and uses "I don't know" all the time instead now ) or "I don't remember" or even "look I don't feel like talking I want to do this instead"

My dd especially struggles and so she fills in the gaps in a conversation with anything that comes into her head because she knows the pause means it's her turn. Yes sometimes it doesn't relate to the conversation but she's getting better at that so now it often does relate to the conversation but might not be fact.

So a conversation about her teacher might start like "was Mrs S at school today?" and dd will say "no she'd gone to the circus" She's not lying even though her teacher was in school, she's filling in the gaps with answers that she hasn't really thought about because it's more important to her that she says something than nothing.

I'm glad you are going on the Hanen course as it will give you a lot of insight into your dd and increase your understanding of her difficulties because your anger at her shows you have very little understanding of ASD tbh and that must be miserable for you both.

'Finding a way of coping is the help she needs to get.
For herself.

She needs to get help for herself in managing her own stress, frustration, emotions and behaviour.'

That's what I meant mathsanxiety, sorry if it wasn't clear.

If your dd is functioning at about 2/3 of her age this would make sense as my son is 3.6 and not on the spectrum but the 'lying' during conversation he does constantly, he is creating fantasy's/imaginary lives in his head. Perfectly normal for his age and your dd if she is socially functioning at that age.

Good luck OP

My brother who is on the spectrum loses things all the time and does clumsy things like dropping his phone down the toilet. He does that every couple of months and doesn't learn. My dad who i believe also has sen is the clumsiest person I've ever met. He breaks everything he touches and forgets things constantly. He cant organise himself or pay attention to anything anyone says for longer than a few seconds so its hard to get any information out of him or to get him to remember the important thing I've asked him to do.

Its so frustrating!

The 2/3 thing is interesting, never heard that before.

OP you seem unreasonably outraged regarding suggestions that you might be autistic, sreferring to be insulted and upset. You're also very clearly angry.

The focus of your distress also appears to be others thinking ill of you, your DDs teacher, the individuals in Asda.

I wonder why that is? I really think it is something you need to talk through with a professional.

FWIW I have been angry with my DC and often consider myself to be rather lacking in both patience and maternal instinct but I have never ever cried over a lost item, shaken with rage or felt like punching a wall. Honestly that is a total overreaction.

Stabby - that's how DS's school have referred to autism in relation to him and it's a term they use on the autism website so not sure why you've pulled me up on it

I've just had a very rare outburst

Except it wasn't an 'outburst' was it? It went on for some time, even to the point you were still telling her off as you went round the supermarket and you were visibly angry enough for a complete stranger to notice. You were still cross even after she had gone to bed.

Everything you have posted sounds like standard 5 year old behaviour. It's not her job yet to keep track of her things at 5 that comes later.

I think at 5 most children have little concept of the value of money and don't realise that it doesn't grow on trees. I remember when I was little thinking that all you had to do was go to the cash point and draw it out.

Wow. Quite the beating you've had.

Some things strike me. I really don't think that the school are working with you and your daughter as well as they could. It may very well be that she needs and is entitled to, some 1:1 support. Does she have a statement or anything?

There should certainly be some form of handover, at the very least.

They really shouldn't be so rigid in their rules and just let you hand in some bloody money to the office. They really are supposed to be able to bend a bit for children who need it.

Also, what help is she/are you getting? After diagnosis, what interventions have there been? Are you following any particular approach in helping to teach her the things she needs to know?

What support do you have for yourself? Are you in touch with any groups, for example? Are you getting tips and advice about how to manage behaviours that you may be struggling with from time to time?

Re the lying. What about smiling and saying that's a lovely story, very creative, what might have happened next?

you can then say things like what about if I didn't forget, and it was that you lost it, what might happen next...

It seems like she's telling you what she wanted to happen or what she thinks you want to hear - or perhaps just what she thinks will keep her out of trouble or she may actually have rewritten what happened so that what she tells you actually is her truth. If you can guide her through, see what it is that she thinks might happen, you might figure out why she lies so much.

My eldest (my kids are both autistic) went through a phase of telling me that "a ghost did it" and he lies to me all the time. About having brushed his teeth, about having tidied his room, things I can clearly prove are not true. I think he does it because he doesn't want to do them.

And yes, I have sometimes plastered a smile on my face and been lovely while inside screaming and shouting and raging against the universe.

It happens.

sorry. rereading you do say she doesn't have any support (apologies, it's a long thread). Is that something that ought to be looked at again, do you think?

And yes, I have sometimes plastered a smile on my face and been lovely while inside screaming and shouting and raging against the universe

I think the reason the OP got a beating is because that isn't what happened. She wasn't lovely on the outside at all - we can all relate to slapping a smile on our faces when things are tough.

I think support definitely should be looked at again because this was a huge over reaction to something pretty basic and standard in small children.

Is it not? It is a long thread, and I may have missed it. I thought that she told off her daughter - fair enough - but the strong feelings she described - rage, really - were not let out to her daughter - who she described as "blissfully unaware" of how she's feeling - but were just poured out on here. I'll go back and have another read.

From what was posted she told the dd off round the supermarket, looked so angry someone gave her filthy looks. The dd was drawing pictures to try and make it up to the OP and the OP was getting angry. Doesn't sound like she was hiding anything

Agreed. Being momentarily annoyed at a five year old with asd is one thing, sulking and holding a grudge against them is quite another.

OP, she is five. Many of your posts about her read like the kind of things I used to say about my annoying flat mates!