To be bloody furious with 5yo dd, and be on the verge of tears over this?

[Lowla]

I'm so angry! Been feeling like this since i picked up dd from school, and i'm just getting angrier with her.

Last month, i sent her into school with a week's dinner money in her new purse. Comes out at hometime telling me i forgot to give her dinner money. The purse is gone, as is the money. No one's seen it nor handed it in. So the teacher told me the school made her up a little sandwich for free.

I've told dd she's not allowed school dinners again, and will have to take packed lunches. She's upset about this because school dinners sit separately from packed lunches, and her 'best friend' is always school dinner.

Today she had P.E. I sent her in with her kit and new shoes.

She comes out at hometime saying i forgot to pack her p.e. kit. Everything was missing. Finally managed to track down her shorts and top in the classroom but her new shoes are gone (they cost me £25!). She says she lost them before P.E and she had to do it in her school hard shoes instead.

I've now had to go and buy a cheap pair of trainers for £5 from ASDA, which don't fit properly because she's a half size, and i had to go into my food budget for them.

She just doesn't give a shit. She has ASD and she just keeps saying 'oh well. never mind. we'll just buy new ones.'

I honestly feel like punching a wall. I realise i'm being totally irrational, but it's the lying that accompanies the losing stuff which pisses me off most. Her teacher claims dd told her that i forgot to pack her gym stuff today. DD also told them last time i gave her no dinner money. In the school's eyes - it's me that's forgetting stuff, not DD.

Since she started school, she's managed to lose a tie, a pair of glasses, a pair of gym shoes, a filled pencil case, her dinner money and purse, her new trainers, her blazer. And i've only got half of the stuff back, despite it being labelled.

Argh! She's in the next room loudly drawing a picture and saying to herself, "This will sure cheer mummy up! Her favourite - a butterfly!"

Dreading her coming in to give me it, because i'm really still angry with her and i'll end up hurting her feelings.

I'm at the end of my tether with her. I can't keep buying her replacement stuff, but what other choice do i have? She NEEDS a tie, she NEEDS a blazer etc etc etc. I'm just so angry with her!

Countrykitten - what shall i call it instead? Anna has said 'exaggerrations' 'embellishments' rather than lies. Should i call dd an exaggerator/embellishor instead when i'm writing about her non truths?

She told me her teacher bit her the other day. Not a lie?

As soon as I read this I thought 'bullying' - have you looked into this?

Fantastic & insightful post Anna.

Op- i strongly suggest, (as a parent of a child with ASD), you need to educate yourself as much as possible on ASD especially theory of mind.

I found your post & some of your responses quite disturbing.

Lowla, "to lie" implies malice or cunning calculation. It sounds more like your daughter is perhaps a bit of a fantasist.

I'm really stunned by some of these replies

Are we not meant to be angry with our kids, ever?

I think Lowra has been very responsible indeed. She has, for whatever reason, felt incredibly angry with her daughter. Ok she may have nagged her a bit but basically it seems that she controlled herself, didn't show her daughter how pissed off she was more than she could, and came on here and let off steam.

I'm really not sure why she's getting this flak. Have people misread the OP, I wonder?

Lowla - you didn't even acknowledge my earlier post trying to give you practical suggestions of how you could better manage things, you're too busy defending yourself.

And however much you say you're joined at the hip and how much you love one another, it sounds a bit hollow. Your anger sounds much more real and the more you post, the more it sounds like you're punishing your daughter for her learning difficulty. Do you think if you shout at her and take away the things she loves she'll suddenly be 'normal'? If not, why are you doing it?

She doesn't understand it as 'lying'. She doesn't understand that she's being careless. She knows she's upset you and is trying to appease you by drawing you pictures and that isn't good enough for you.

You both need outside support

I can't believe she has to hand in a week's worth of dinner money herself to teacher at the age of 5. She has ASD!!! Hum. Maybe you shoudl give money and other stuff to teacher in future???

But uniform, gym kit etc - well, if they are labelled with your dd's name, then kick up merry hell. Because someone has them!! Is there a lost property box you can look in??

OP, if this was just a run-of-the-mill vent about something your dd had done, it would have been long-forgotten by now. What worries me is the extent of your anger and how that escalated even after she had drawn you a picture.

For goodness sake, let it go already! She is 5 years old, too young to have responsiblities over money or whatever.

And doing everything together with her isn't healthy. Does she have friends round to play?

My nearly 5 year old would lose £10. SO I wouldn't give it to her. She also tells the teacher I forgot her socks so she can wear the exciting hideous spare ones. Your DD is 5. I can't imagine expecting so much of her.

Yes, bouncy. I'm a bully. And i have anger issues. And i'm autistic too.

All confirmed by strangers on the internet. very strange, i would have thought someone who actually knew me would have told me this by now.

When i told dd off earlier, i wasn't screaming in her face. I was just telling her i was upset, and she needs to find her shoes tomorrow. I was firm but calm.

When we got home, i asked her to play in her room while i went into mine and had a sob and a very honest rant on here.

Where/when have i bullied my daughter?

I've admitted i was being unreasonable earlier for (internally) putting all the blame onto her. I'm not denying i was OTT at all. But i was stressed and angry. Shoot me. I'm sure a lot of you vent about your kids time to time.

And i don't think i've listed my dd's faults anywhere? I've said i get annoyed by her clumsiness and half truths. Hardly a list.

Thanks, Anna. I'm going to write in her SALT diary that i'd like a referral to discuss her 'half truths' with someone. I think the school has an educational pyschologist, but i don't think i've met them.

at you thinking i was diagnosing you over the 'net

really, OP, i was drawing some parallels between your behaviour and what you were saying about your DD, i mentioned nothing about any conditions - but you are very defensive and have chosen to pick up and pick out things to argue against

i was trying to empathise with you earlier, my own DD has ASD and many of the issues you highlight with your DD, i have with my own

it's time to chill - come on over to the SN section and probably leave AIBU if you're feeling fragile?

I'm really not sure why she's getting this flak. Have people misread the OP, I wonder?

I hope that's what it is. Perhaps many people think i vocalised my OP to my dd?

Otherwise feeling angered/annoyed by our children is a maternal crime.

My DS is 8. Very often he will 'grin' when being told off. He has, at times, laughed out loud. It was all due to nerves, not knowing what to expect.

My DS has a brilliant feel for stories. He sometimes blurs the edges between reality and fantasy.

Lowla - I am a teacher and I am telling you categorically that your DD's school is NOT doing enough to support your DD. One of her issues is organisation thus she needs support with organisation. It matters not one jot how 'lovely' the school are and how 'lovely' her teacher is. If her organisational needs are such that she is losing all those things then she needs support to get better at organising. Really she does!

Is this, by any chance a fee paying school? No TAs? That is very unusual in a school. We have several TAs and if we saw a child struggle to be organised we'd be on it like shot. One child I taught had a strip of velcro by the door. We began by getting him to remember to take his jumper home so he had a picture of his jumper on the strip and when he had his jumper in his hand we would remove the picture and he'd get a reward. Over time we added more items once the jumper had become engrained. She needs help with this. Please get her some?

Shes 5 for gods sake!!!!

Get a grip woman !!!!

Lowla

Bouncy meantbthat she thought your Dd might be being bullied at school, having money taken.

Lowla, are you absolutely certain that your DD's not having stuff taken from her by another child? The money especially, it sounds as though it would be difficult for the purse to get lost as it was attached to her bag.

Lowla, basically I was trying to say was katythecleaninglady was saying, to lie is to be malicious, your dd isn't being malicious. Perhaps she has a great imagination, perhaps it's because of her asd, perhaps she doesn't understand, at worst she's doing it for attention. But if you feels it's excessive then you should seek some advice.

I hate to think anyones having a hard time and you've obviously come here for support, but the tone of your posts, a lot of your wording, well you do sound quite scary. Perhaps you are not like that in rl but people can only go by what you type.

I think a good starting point would be to arrange to meet with your dds class teacher and discuss you concerns and seek some extra support with dd keeping track of her things.

I think the OP probably really needs more RL support than she is getting.

The losing stuff sounds normal for any kid, and it sounds like the school expects too much of little kids if 5yos are having to look after dinner money, ties, blazers, PE kit etc.

Calling untruths lies, versus embellishments or exaggerations, implies different levels of intent to deceive. It's worth remembering that long-term low-level minor exaggeration can lead to major skews in perception, and can be as damaging as one large lie. But the long-term low-level stuff is much harder to deal with.

I think there is not evidence of any real intent to lie in the case here - a 5yo is unlikely to be malicious, and with ASD in the picture a 5yo is unlikely to have the theory of mind to see it as lies as an intentional cover story.

Given that the OP says her DD tells untruths nearly all the time, I think it's more like what I was describing - a lack of feeling of solid external reality, where describing anything (true or not) has as little consequence as describing (true) reality. What the DD needs is strategies for seeing the worth in living in/ reporting on external reality and its consequences, rather than living in a little separate bubble. My suggestion of changing how it's described, and explaining the consequence of the new description, was just intended as a strategy.

Wow.

So in one post my daughter is being starved of attention. I don't communicate with her enough.

In another, we're too close? it's not healthy to do everything together?

DD doesn't want people round to play. She apparently only likes her 'best friend'. But he goes to ASC every day.

My dd isn't housebound. We visit friends, family, go to soft play, she goes to Rainbows and ASC each once a week too.

I'm really insulted so many people are tearing my parenting to shreds.

I'm an LP. Of course we're together a lot. Who else will have her?

And enough about the picture already. I said thank you. I told her it was lovely. She got huffy when i refused to let her watch TV. Instead she went and played with a toy.

Internally, i wasn't wanting her to come in with the picture though. I was still angry, and didn't think i'd be able to look convincingly pleased with it, thus potentially hurting her feelings.

Kiri - i've reads your post. Thanks. I can't reply to each one individually.

I've read all posts and i've taken a lot of the suggestions on board.

Equally, i've dismissed several of the silly/OTT ones.

She just doesn't give a shit
I honestly feel like punching a wall
I'm at the end of my tether with her
Argh! I can't stop crying! I'm actually shaking with anger
I feel like screaming!
DD is clumsy and a compulsive liar
I know this is going to keep happening and happening

FOR FUCK SAKE GET SOME HELP, I have never felt like this about my kids the very fact you feel like this and think about your DD like this is horrible.

Your daughter sounds like she is creative and yes that she does embellish real life - but you choose to label her as a compulsive liar.

Also if you are shouting at her in the supermarket enough to upset other people there then I do not think that you can have been particularly calm - your story changes.

I sincerely hope that you can get over whatever your negative feelings are towards your daughter and also get over your own massive defensiveness enough to get some professional help so that you can start to support her rather than be angry with her.

I don't think you could have been as calm as you think you were op if people were giving you evils in the supermarket.

Its not that you call it lying, its that you are so bloody angry about it! Like her lies or exaggerations or whatever you want to call them are deliberate naughtiness on her part.

OP, you said in your title you were 'bloody furious' and 'on the verge of tears'. That is not a normal response to what's happened.

WHY post on here if you aren't listening to anyone?

People would be much more sympathetic if you said well maybe I didn't handle that right, maybe I need to look at how I deal with issues etc. But instead you come across as incredibly defensive.

I would guess that perhaps you are now regretting your post and trying to underplay what happened. But it sounds like this isn't a one-off incident. It sounds like you have high expectations of your dd and when these aren't met, there's an almighty row or anger/disappointment on your part.