are fathers equal to mothers?

[tittytittyhanghang]

Regarding parenting babies/toddlers. I thought they were? If a mother and father are no longer together they surely it is important and right for that child to maintain an equal relationship with both parents (given that both parents love the child and want as deep and loving relationship with the child as possible). Bars breastfeeding then, i dont understand how mothers are somehow superior to fathers and a baby/toddler 'needs' to be around the mother at all times, (I actually find this argument deeply insulting to mothers who have went back to work and left their babies in the care of childminders etc) whereas it would only need to be around the father a couple of hours a week. AIBU to think this is more to do with the mothers insecurities and that in fact a baby would be cope fine spending more than a couple of hours/overight with the father.

This probably is a thread about a good few threads i've read on mn, so flme me if you feel the need but im a bit irked (and shocked) that the likes of this can be said - 'That aside don't talk about your rights as you don't have any, she as the childs mother & primary carer calls the shots so the sooner you get your head round that the better you'll get along.' and hardly anyone challenges it.

And I agree with richmanpoormanbeggarsmanthief

We need a sensible approach to these things. Totally agree that parents are equal but not always at every stage and in every situation.

Some of the comments on here are a bit pie-in-the-sky. When I was breasfeeding my son, I would rather have shit on my hands and clapped than expressed milk so that another woman could then feed him with it.

elizaregina - a baby should never be taken into bed with people who aren't that child's breastfeeding mother, it is a risk for cot death. Mother-baby pairs, when breastfeeding, sleep in sync with each other. The risk with some other person sleeping with the baby is they sleep too deeply and could suffocate them.

Exactly wallison there is no fucking way I would express milk so that my ex's new girlfriend could feed them!

And as Sam points out it is a SIDS risk for the girlfriend to share the bed with the baby so she shoulkdnt do it anyway. You also keep referring to the girlfriend as apparent to this child, they are not!!

I dont think that it is a case of equality. Rather, in some relationships the primary caregiver is often the mother. For most of the couples I know that means that the mum takes maternity leave and the father works. I know in my own relationship I do the lions share of the baby (now toddler) care. Its my husband equally as important as me? Yes, of course he is. As my daughter has grown he has taken on more of the childcare duties, but in the early days it was mostly me. I got up 6 nights a week because he worked but on a Friday, he got up to give me a break. I spent all day caring for my baby, organised weaning, took her to baby groups, doctors appointments etc. The only reason why I did most of it is because my husband went out to work. We are a team, and we cant both stay at home with the baby, so I did and he worked.

At the moment most babies spend their first hours/day with mum in hospital. Then once home their dad may be around full time if he takes paternity leave, once back at work he may be out the house for 10-12 he's a day leaving a mum on maternity leave as the main carer. The dad can still have an important role when at home, my dp always has done but the set up which is dictated by economics often means mum is main carer and when a relationship breaks down its seen as beneficial to maintain the status quo and then the parents can work together to buildup contact away from the mother.

The current thing is that courts don't order overnights (in the UK) under 12mths, does any one know why they have that ruling? Is it researched and based on studies? I would hope its dependent on In dividual circumstances.

I do agree that a man that pushes for extended contact at the detriment of a bfeeding relationship is not thinking of the chilkds needs.

I can understand breastfed babies staying mainly with their mums.

But what have boys got in common with their mums?
They should go off and live with the menfolk and learn men stuff.

I think the mistake is that to assume that in order to be equal parents you have to have a 50/50 split of the childs time.

As a child who had a 50/50 split along with my older and younger brother, I can categorically state that for us at least - that was more about the needs of the parents than of us children.

And the 4 parents involved, all went out of their way to be friendly, and flexible and all get on - It was still shit.

Both parents are important to a childs development in different ways, as are other family members, friends, teachers etc.

This makes me so as apparently my DS must have suffered terribly due to the fact that I returned to work relatively early and his father acted as primary caregiver.

I bf in the early weeks but DH took the time off work too and did the vast majority of the rest of the childcare as we knew I would be returning to work and he was going to be SAHD. He got up in the night and brought DS to me for a feed, he changed his nappy, resettled him, he dressed him, bathed him. Having a penis (or more accurately not having boobs) clearly didn't prevent him from caring for our son?!

This was necessary for me to be able to recover from the birth fully enough to go back as early as I did.

DH is much more of a natural parent than me. I didn't always want to have children, if I hadn't been with him I probably wouldn't have. OTOH He has always wanted a large family, lot's of kids and to be highly involved.

If parents are together then IMO there is no biological reason that the mother must be the primary caregiver. Not all mothers are equally "motherly" just by virtue of being female.

However, if parents are separated and a father cannot be there providing a similar dual role in the very early days then I think it's wrong to deprive a child of that comfort just because a parent wants their "share" of time with the baby.

Some fathers are, some aren't. My DD's dad only took an interest in her after we separated. I did everything with/for her and she hated being left alone with him, she was so attached to me. I would say we weren't equal as far as parenting went.

My current DP is very hands-on with our DC which meant I could comfortably return to work, leaving them together and not be worried - something I could never have done first time round.

If my ex asked me to express so his gf could bond and feed the baby and that he was intending on co sleeping with all three of them at night,I would ask him to get drug tested as clearly something would have confuddled his mind.

But Daddelion, that would interfere terribly with the menfolks' hunt for mammoths.

This: Most NB are asleep for weeks on end they only seem to start being more aware and waking up to the world from 3 months.
and this:
But what have boys got in common with their mums?
They should go off and live with the menfolk and learn men stuff.

have to be the two silliest things that I have read on MN (or anywhere, actually ) for months.

Sonia- I am pretty certain daddelion was being sarcastic with the But what have boys got in common with their mums? They should go off and live with the menfolk and learn men stuff. comment I would hope so anyway!!

wallison exactly

Since when does equality mean that separated fathers need to/are entitled to/should have tiny babies overnight?

And the earlier argument about expressing milk to facilitate that is the most naive thing I have ever heard. What if the expressed bottle isn't enough? What if you can't express? What if the baby wants an extra feed? What if the bottle leaks? What if the mother doesn't want to pump milk while her baby is elsewhere? What if the mother can't express while the baby is not there? How is it equal that a mother spends the night that the tiny baby is away from her setting alarm clocks to ensure they express at the same time roughly as the baby would feed to ensure that their supply is maintained?

Equality in my mind doesn't mean parents get to have their fair share of a child. Equality isn't necessarily about time spent, equality surely, is both parents absolutely putting a tiny baby first. Putting their needs first. If both parents equally agree that a tiny baby can spend an overnight with the parent who lives away, then that's equality.

Hop You may well be right, that occurred to me after I'd posted. I took it at face value and if I was being po-faced and humourless then I apologise.

OTOH, I read something from daddelion on another thread a few days ago that didn't appear remotely humorous and was in a similar vein. So I'm not sure.

I stand by the other one, though.

I do think it's impossible to get a blanket answer on something like this.

There will always be some cases where mum didn't bond very strongly for whatever reason, and so the dad has taken either the whole or major parenting role, or where mum had to work early on etc, so dad has taken on the primary career role, and in these situations if the baby doesn't recognize mum due to seeing her a few hours a week for example, or if baby still needs dad to settle him/her at night as this is what they are used to, then mum should accept this and gradually build up in the way any other NRP would until the baby is happy to be looked after by her alone.

But then equally, in the larger majority of situations when baby and mum have a strong bond, then dads do need to look at what will keep their baby happy, and accept that they don't instantly have the same role as mum, just like during pregnancy they didn't have the same role yet. They will get their chance to have their child alone for longer periods/do what they want to a much greater extent once the child is ready and happy to do so.

No child should be pushed into a situation before they are ready unless it in completely necessary, it's unfair and selfish.

Sonia - the other one must have been one lucky parent... I'm pretty sure my DD didn't sleep until 3 months!

Imo good parents are and should be equal, regardless of gender.
My husband isn't a lesser parent, less important to our children or less able to care for them because he is male.
I don't have any special skills in childcare because I am female.
If we're talking the physical care of breast fed babies then clearly only the mother can breastfeed! But apart from that then providing both parents are equally caring and competent, I don't see why one is better than the other.

I don't think they are equal, I think they're different but equally important.

Equal doesn't mean same.

Of equal importance is equal.

the other one must have been one lucky parent..
Absolutely - it was years before I got more than 2 hours sleep together.

SoniaGluck- was it this post?

Add message | Report | Message poster Daddelion Sat 26-Jan-13 18:01:02

He was a bit out of order with the Mushroom soup.

Is he normally a fun guy?

That joke was wasted.
I'm rarely very serious on MN, unless it's a serious, personal thread, then I don't post.

Daddelion No, it wasn't that. I can't remember which thread it was now. And it's also possible I have you confused with someone else.

It seems I've got you wrong, I sincerely apologise. I can be too serious for my own good, sometimes.