to think we should encourage our daughters to marry men who earn AT LEAST as much as them?

[StripeyBear]

Quarter of a century ago, starting university, I would have furiously disagreed with this. Women should make their own money, and marry who they like!

Now, looking back, I'm not so sure. Nearly all my female friends, however successful in their careers prior to children, have compromised work success to raise their children. (I do have one friend who has a house husband, but that is the exception rather than the rule). Consequently, the lifestyle of my friends has been largely dictated by how much their husbands earn. So the nurse who married the mechanic is run ragged with extra shifts, juggling small kids in a tiny house with a large mortgage, indifferent schools and holidays in Haven or not at all - whilst my midwife girlfriend who married a consultant, is living in a huge detached house, with kids at private schools and just does a few shifts to keep her registration and to keep out of the way of her cleaner.

So AIBU, should we tell our daughters to marry someone who can provide the material stuff, or in another quarter of a century, will the world have moved on again, and fathers will be equal parents, and none of this will matter a stuff?

God, I completely agree, OP.

I'm the run ragged nurse with a DH on an average wage with a small house run ragged with extra shifts and no holidays. I can feel my life shortening from the stress of it.

From the girls I was at school with there is an obvious divide. The girls who married well (materially) and the girls who didn't.

I have friends who have a fantastic life because their DH's earn well, and friends who are struggling like me because their DH's don't.

Some of the girls have gone on to earn quite well themselves but the quality of lives seems to be (to me and my friends) affected mostly by the earning power of the man.

I am extremely envious of the lifestyle of some of my friends, and really it was luck of the draw. We all met our partner in similar ways. I was naive though. I really thought money DIDN'T MATTER. I thought love was all that mattered. I was wrong and immature, actually. Money is a huge issue! Massive! I'm currently trapped in an awful job. My well-healed friends look at me curiously. Why don't you just leave?

I have two DDs. I hope they earn well themselves and meet rich men. You just can't do what you want in life without money. You just don't have the choices and options open to you.

I think mutual respect and an ability and willingness to communicate are much more important as these qualities will get them through whatever storms batter their relationship. Financial, child related or whatever.

So why are you a nurse and not a doctor, consultant or surgeon, don't you think that could make a difference to your family income, why is it down to the man to earn the largest wage?

I was born in the 70s and my parents in the 50s. While it was fairly traditional set up, my mum workedm full time in a professional job and my dad was equally as 'parenty' as my mum (I don't remember whether he changed my nappy but I know he did half the "our daughter never sleeps" night shifts). And they raised me for myself - my job/career (or not), the home that I would buy with my money. They never pressured me but made it clear that they expected me to do the best I could. While they were thrilled when I got married and had children (I'm an only child so DS and DD are their only grandchildren) it was never an expectation - i was primarily a person in my own right

Of course money matters and gives you choices. But I would not want to rely on someone else to provide me the lifestyle I want. We have a good life because I earn well.
True, this means that I also have to make respective career choices and can't simply quit one day if I don't feel like working any more - but on the other hand, I also don't have to worry what happens if that rich DH one day does not want to fund our life any more. I prefer it this way.

SPBInDisguise Sun 27-Jan-13 18:10:48
""My FIL managed SAHD and equal parenting without waiting for the world to follow and he was born in 1909! "

That made me smile. He sounds fantastic"

He was fantastic, SPB.

We are talking of a man who could remembering visiting Versailles before the outbreak of the First World War. And yet he never seemed old, even when I knew him in his 80s and 90s. He lived to play with his grandson who was born in 2000.

As a teenager he contracted TB in his leg and was told he would never walk again. So he became a hairdresser and spent all his working life on his feet. Took part in WWII but was refused an invalid's pension after the war as he was told he should never have been allowed to join up in the first place.

With an attitude like that, a bit of parenting wasn't going to throw him.

There's a lot of crap on this thread.

FWIW, I'm a consultant (medic) and I married a man who earns far less than me, he always will. However his intelligence runs rings around mine, we share the same geeky sense of humour and our boys are learning from him that a father can be as equal a parent and housekeeper as a mother.

I have several consultant friends who are married to other consultants. They all work and share the housework / childcare equally. None had to sacrifice career progression for their partner, they all mutually supported each other through long hours and tough exams and sleepless nights with babies. Now they just have to juggle various rosters to make sure they are on call on different nights of the week.

I will be teaching my sons that they should marry (if they want to) a man or woman that shares their ideals, their hopes for the future, their sense of humour. Someone they respect, who respects them. Someone they can trust. Someone they fancy the pants off. Someone who will see their point of view. Because then they might have the same chance of ending up in a relationship as good as their parents'. I will also tell them to be wary of being married purely for their income!

Well now, I have two dd's and a ds. I shall make sure that when we discuss the interview and vetting process for future spouses that I make it clear that when they're down to the final two, the one with the larger income or prospect to earn will clinch the deal. I'll also hope that their future spouse sees them as an equally good prospect. Or I'll hope it pans out as it has for me - with someone who earns enough to share the financial responsibility of a decent, if not private school and Bahamas holiday lifestyle. If I look at my in-laws -two teachers living a comfortable retirement with no thrills but in company they adore to my parents - miserable but wealthy, I still know what is choose. Please god my children get that.

I meant frills-for all I know my in laws have plenty of thrills ;-)

Fwiw I am not personally driven wild with envy by the thought of private schools and only the occasional shift at work. It doesn't really seem a lifestyle worth what is effectively selling your sexual and domestic services to the wealthiest punter.

The OP has saddened and angered me in roughly measures.

Blimey I hope your daughter doesn't have any plans of her own, if they don't happen to fit with your 'marry a rich man and then start firing out sprogs'

She may not ever want to marry
She may be gay
She may not want children
She may want to live on a commune
She may find the idea of being in the house with a child to be utterly tedious and want to go back to work as soon as the umbilical cord has been cut.

You do know that even if she does decide to marry, if the poor sod who ends up with you as a mother in law, happens to earn less that your daughter, y'know he could give up work/go part time so that your daughter can continue to work once she has completed maternity leave. It isn't exactly unknown y'know.

I like the way we never seem to notice that an op is no longer here!
And carry on talking at her!

merlottits, but are you happy in your marriage?

If you encourage your DDs to marry for money, they may not be happy in their marriage.

One complicating factor is that we can't possibly know how the dd's will feel about their incomes-

merlottits' household by the sounds of it has two earners with an average income and she feels run ragged

when dc were little, dh's income was slightly under average and I had no income at all: I didn't find it particularly stressful because we were still not as poor as I had expected

now we have one average/slightly below income and one well below, and I feel comfortable

Presumably a lot of this is to do with the fact that I am not surrounded by well healed friends.

I can't possibly know how dd will react or what her friends will be like, so trying to make some kind of assumption baseed on what I feel is not terribly productive.

My mother, who has always lived in houses with large gardens and plenty of storage space, feels dh and I are deprived in our ordinary 3 bedroom semi. Dh and I otoh look around us and see that we have at least as much space as most of our friends do, and more than some. Judging our feelings from hers isn't really getting her anywhere; we just tend to find it irritating.

Perhaps you could provide your daughters with free child care so they can go back to work.

Perhaps you could live as an extended family and they will look after you if you need it when you're older.

What are you going to say if your daughters take up with other women who want to be SAHMs?

When I met DH, I was at school and he was working as an apprentice engineer.
Then I went to uni and was broke, but he kept on earning (while getting a first class honours degree in engineering on day release).
Then I got a job and my income steadily rose until I was earning more than him.
Then I went part time, and was earning the same as him.
Now I am a SAHM and earn nothing and we rely on DH's moderate income.

I don't think I would give my DD any advice on the income of her husband - there are simply too many variables over a lifetime.

I would advise her to think seriously about her career choice. I did all the things I was meant to do, studied hard, got a good degree, had a professional career for a big company. It is all for nothing and I have no way back into the job market. I would have been better off doing some vocational training and having a lower paid job with much more flexible options over a longer period of time.

It's not my DHs earning power that has let me down, it is being fool enough to think that a big company career was compatible with looking after my own children.

I think it's silly to just ignore the type of job the man does. It's reasonable to want your child to marry someone who loves his job and who works willingly (ie not an idle bastard) and whose income (with hers) will allow them to make the most of their lives. I'd hate to see either of my children really struggling to make ends meet and to be unable to travel or to go out with friends.

VBisme - I do earn a good wage. I am educated to a high level and have a good job. I am perfectly capable of being the breadwinner. In fact I have just gone back to work (last week) and I earn more than dh is currently.

But we also wanted 3 children and dh and I wanted for me to stay home and breastfeed them and look after them rather than going back to work straight away. So in the year I took off (only 14 weeks meagre maternity pay here) we had to choose between me going to work and earning money. Or me staying at home with the DC and dh supporting us financially.

This was a choice. One we made as a family.

But, the simple fact is- it was was a heck of a lot easier, nicer and less stressful for all of us when we did it when dh was earning a lot of money as opposed to when he was not.

Cory- no marrying anyone rich, no matter where they earn their money comes with the risk of bankruptcy, redundancy or sickness changing that income.

But my argument is, the potential for financial security is an important consideration just like whether that person will be a hands on father or someone who pulls their weight around the home.

iteotwawki You've articulated much better than I what I meant upthread about it being about more than cash.

DP also earns quite a bit less than me (but still a good salary by most people's estimation), but we are equally intelligent (if with different strengths). I could no more deal with a wealthy dimwit than I could a hyper-intelligent financial passenger.

I think in all honesty it is simpler to encourage our daughters not to have children. They wreck most aspects of your life, really, and even more so if you feel forced to put up with a high earner who quite probably bores you silly.

Or maybe we should be encouraging our daughters and our sons to change the way employment works so that both parents have equality in the home and in the workplace?

Op, I really see your point. If I had daughters I would hope that they would run a mile from men without any ambition, drive and future. I would be careful of not suggesting they they marry a man because of their wealth though.

I hope my DS marries a woman that shares his values in every way, and I sure am going to do my best to make sure that his values are not ruled just by money. If a girl is interested in him just because of any wealth he might accumulate, I really hope he runs a mile).

I am encouraging my dd and my ds to both aim for work life which they will find satisfying, and which will provide them with a lifestyle which is acceptable to them.

In my naivety I assumed that's what most people do- rather than assume your child will want to rely on someone else to fund their lifestyle.

I find attitudes like the ops quite depressing really. I married my dh Because we love eachother. But then maybe it helped that I developed my own career and kept it going while having a family rather than seeing myself as the second rate earner and dh as the second rate parent