to think we should encourage our daughters to marry men who earn AT LEAST as much as them?

[StripeyBear]

Quarter of a century ago, starting university, I would have furiously disagreed with this. Women should make their own money, and marry who they like!

Now, looking back, I'm not so sure. Nearly all my female friends, however successful in their careers prior to children, have compromised work success to raise their children. (I do have one friend who has a house husband, but that is the exception rather than the rule). Consequently, the lifestyle of my friends has been largely dictated by how much their husbands earn. So the nurse who married the mechanic is run ragged with extra shifts, juggling small kids in a tiny house with a large mortgage, indifferent schools and holidays in Haven or not at all - whilst my midwife girlfriend who married a consultant, is living in a huge detached house, with kids at private schools and just does a few shifts to keep her registration and to keep out of the way of her cleaner.

So AIBU, should we tell our daughters to marry someone who can provide the material stuff, or in another quarter of a century, will the world have moved on again, and fathers will be equal parents, and none of this will matter a stuff?

Quite Mintyy

Mintyy, why are you flouncing?

in general,where is the evidence that women struggle to earn enough money for a comfortable life?

HannahsSister40 Mon 28-Jan-13 09:31:34
"You are right Stripey. Women on here argue all the time that there should be total equality between Mothers and Fathers, but overwhelmingly, whether she's got a Phd of handful of GCSE's it's the Mother who wants to spend more time at home with the children in those early years. If a man could get pregnant, carry baby in his belly, give birth, breastfed And take a years maternity leave, that might be different. "

So do you suppose adoptive mothers do not bond with their children, because they have not carried them in the womb and breastfed them?

And are you unaware that there are countries in the world with more generous parental leave?

Have not read all of the thread but just wanted to add my twopence worth - sorry if discussion has moved on! I think we should be encouraging our daughters to be financially independent at all times so that no matter whether their relationships work out or not, they are never trapped at home having to put up with a crap marriage because they have no other option. By all means get married but don't give away your autonomy - I dearly wish I hadn't given mine away .

Mentioned upthread was the fact that many of us don't have a 'line-up' of potential husbands to choose from!

Finding a man just to be a boyfriend is a challenge.

Income is the last thing i care about - own hair, teeth & no addictions with a normal, nice personality is difficult enough to find around here!!

OP, YABVU

I've met some of these girls (actually, a few) who are merely after a paypacket, not a man and it is quite hideous - I'm amazed that they ever DO get married as they're so scheming (e.g. one who swore that she would HAVE to be married by 25 to someone hideously wealthy, is still single and pushing 30s. Guys will flirt with her but don't want to be saddled with someone so materialistic). One also eyed up DH - BITCH DON'T EVEN. But anyway, that's beside the point.

Someone who starts their career potentially as a good earner, could end up losing their job and in a low paid role. Or, you could marry a high earner you never see and end up with all the pressure of having to raise children on your own.

Also, I do know many men who would actually quite like to be SAHDs - my brother said to my recently that he wished it had been an option for him (he always outearned SIL quite significantly) and now the DCs are teenagers, it's less likely it will ever happen

Wonder where posters are who think it so rare for women to earn a comfortable income. My university is full of female professors, heads of departments etc, many of whom have offspring.

I did earn a comfortable income as a Staff Nurse until i became very unwell; now i'm working PT as an HCA because of MH problems; not much i can do about it.

I'm single & every bill is a struggle tbh - i still wouldn't want an unhappy marriage to a higher earning man though, or to 'settle' - although i'm beginning to weaken in my ideals.... :(

I hope she will marry/live with someone who wants to work. I certainly don't want her to keep him.

The idea of all the people " encouragin their daughters to marry up" brings to mind hordes of Bridget Jones' Mothers!!!

You deluded fools, how many of you have followed YOUR mothers' advice n whom to fall in love with?!
Well?!

If my daughter wants to marry a very poor woman, then I won't discourage it if they truly love each other. Twattish OP.

Do we have any statistics on how easy it is for a woman to marry a high earning man?

I have a kind of impression that most women don't pull that one off either.

Imagine having to go on a HAVEN holiday! How AWFUL!!!!

OP, if your low earning friends had decided to take jobs that earned more, then they wouldn't have been as dependent on their other halves, or their husbands may have stayed at home to look after the children instead of them.

Women staying home to look after children is not a given.

I think the point ethelb and cory is that most women want to stay at home with their kids, or certainly women want to in higher numbers than men. I would say it was a function of biology - I carried my baby and feel differently about her to her Dad - even though he is a hands-on involved Dad. I'm not saying you have to be the biological mother to have that bond - I am sure I could generate similiar feelings towards an adoptee, and I am equally sure that if I had died in childbirth, DH would have stepped up to the mark to play my role as best as he could. However, these extreme events aside, mostly it is the mother who is the principal parent, who makes the career sacrifice for her children.

Aside from anything else, how do you know your dds fiancé will earn a lot or a little? When I married, my dh was a student and I supported him, then he supported me with a good career, then he moved and was unemployed and I supported him and now he is temping, hasn't got much of a career at the moment but at least is employed and is bringing in good pay and if need be if he is unemployed I could support us both. My point is the idea of a career path, going into work at 18 and staying til retirement and the pocket watch is a life from another era. Encourage dd to get a career herself, encourage her to marry a man who is good with money and has a good sense of responsibility and then just let them get on with it.

mostly it is the mother who is the principal parent, who makes the career sacrifice for her children

Not in my experience it is not. It wasn't until i went to uni I realised that some mothers stopped working when their children were born in the 1980s. Yes I was v naive, but it really, really isn't a given.

But even of this is the case, Stripeybear, most of us only have two or three children, so that is still a number of years in which you could get your career established pre-dc and get it back on its feet post-dc. It is even possible for a high earning couple to save up money before children to cover parental leave.

So why would I not encourage my dd to think about her own career and self-sufficiency? And what lengths would you go to to get a high earning man to marry you? Supposing you don't find one you fancy? Supposing you don't find one that fancies you? At least with a qualification, you know you've got it.

As I said before, a large number of successful academics in my field are women with children. They typically take some time out when their children are little and then blaze on with their careers for 20-30 years until retirement.

I am utterly baffled by the number of posts on this thread making a clear association between abusive partners and high earning partners. Low earning or unemployed partners are just as capable of controlling, twattish behaviour as high earners, ffs.

I think you can be unhappy even if you are very rich. But nevertheless it is hard if you have to worry about every penny and having enough to eat and pay the bills. And I don't mean some ideas of poverty you see here but I mean really struggling on not very much money. It's OK short term but in the long term it can be soul destroying.

Well I certainly wasn't

LOL @ the way the thread is going... I wasn't really suggesting a life-plan of meet-rich-bloke-and-marry-him Cory Obviously it makes sense to get the best education you can (and there are many reasons to wish to be educated beyond simply earning money anyway) and it is clearly better to establish yourself in a career that is rewarding and interesting. I'm merely thinking through the implications of marrying someone with lower earning potential than yourself.

If you think about my 2 friends - both went to uni, spent some time establishing their careers - both had some fun doing that and married in their mid-late 20s. I like both the husbands - they are nice people, both are good Dads - but one had just graduated medical school when they got together - and the other is a mechanic with no real formal qualification. Both families have 3 kids, ranging between 6 and 1. The one married to the doctor has continued to work (just to keep her hand in). I think both of my girlfriends would earn c. £35k FTE - but within the context of better-off family budget it doesnt' really matter if she works or not, as her husband's salary covers their outgoings. They have a 5 bedroom house - so a room each for all the children - it also has a larder and a playroom - I mention that cos I'm bloody jealous - lol... She does have a busy life - and she does pick up the majority of the childcare - and 3 small children are hardly a walk in the park - but she has a pretty good life.

My friend who married the mechanic - well he doesn't earn much - about £24K f/t - she works 2/3 of full-time - so her £24K earnings are essential to the household. She doesn't want to work this much. Her health ain't great and her pgs have been difficult, but there really is no choice. They live in a 2 bed house - they were always intending to trade up, but the property market stagnated and like a lot of people they got trapped. The "baby" is still in with them. They moved their mortgage to interest only, so feel it is no better than renting, but with none of the flexibility. My friend is often in tears because she is tired and fed up. Her middle DD has special needs, and is hard to place with a childminder - so the parents try to juggle care between themselves - which is exhausting and a nightmare.

I suppose you could say it is a temporary situation. Both women are now in their early 30s - it will be nearly 5 years before the youngest is at school - nearer to a decade before the children are perhaps old enough for the mothers to return full focus to their careers. I suppose you could even say they are lucky that they are keeping their hand in. What you can definitely say though is, that these two women, with very similar paths and capacities themselves, are having a very different experience of parenthood.

It's not about taking responsiblity for yourself - or self-sufficiency - or marrying someone you love... both friends did that...

But your friend's problems are primarily to do with her and her child's health.

What if it had been her dh's health instead of her own which had been too poor to allow for fulltime work? Or can that only happen to wives?

Should we not also be telling our sons that they have to marry a woman with higher earning potential in case their own health gives way?

Haven't read whole thread but

Who said romance was dead?

I must have explained it badly Cory - her problems are to do with her lack of money. She would like to work less. She would have liked to have given up work when she was 30 weeks pg, but she couldn't afford to, because the household was dependent on her income. She would have liked to have taken longer maternity leave, but she couldn't afford to, because the household needed her back at work to pay bills. Her life is worse because of her lack of money - not her minor health probs, and her DD's (relatively minor) needs. Everyone might have these minor difficulties - the problem arises because she has nothing in reserve to help her deal with them :(

So if her car breaks down, or she is sick and misses her shift allowance payment, or the boiler or fridge start to leak or ..... it is a major disaster...