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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

not lack of jobs - lack of ambition!

410 replies

eggs11 · 09/01/2013 13:21

I know very, very little about politics, and if you can help me see this from a different perspective, please do!

A friend is a labour party member, and we recently had a row.I have a good friend (I like her for her personality, not for her life choices) who had a baby at 16 and is on benefits. She has a now 4 year old, starting school in September. She has a huge two bed flat in london (we would love to live where she does! but couldn't afford it), sky tv, the child has a nintendo ds, new clothes all the time, constant days out. I said it makes me angry that me and DP work (we also had a baby young) really really hard. Firstly, I had to go back after 9months, while she gets to sit on her bum until her kid is 5. Secondly, she gets free childcare! She had 2year old funding and 3 year old funding, while the £50 a day to put my 1year old in nursery makes it barely worth me working.

This is the point where we had a row. My labour friend said that it's not her fault that she's on benefits, there's no jobs to make it worth her working. However, if you spoke to my other friend, she has never even considered working. She said to me last week, when her daughter goes to full time school in sept, she has two options: 1) have another baby and get another 5years 6months, which she's planning on doing. 2)Wait until sept, then she has another 6months on job seekers to get pregnant. HOW IS THAT FAIR????? she isn't even looking after her daughter for the past two years, because she's in nursery. Why does this woman get to sit on her bum with free childcare? Why isn't she made to do voluntary work as a fully abled 22 year old with 10 gcse's, or at least made to go with her daughter to nursery and learn parenting skills, which is what I assume they think she lacks if her daughter gets so much funding!

I'm not saying that everyone on benefits/job seekers allowance isn't looking for work. I know how hard it was for DP to find work, it took months of hundreds of applications. I'm saying that while a life on benefits is so cushty and just relies on a baby every five years, no one has the incentive to work! labours answer was increase the working wage. I disagree, she's comfortable, why would she go out to work just for a few extra quid a week?

OP posts:
CloudsAndTrees · 09/01/2013 18:31

Working people get into debt too! But then that's a choice you have a moral right to make when you are earning your own money.

Dawndonna · 09/01/2013 18:51

As I've said before. Eugenics, alive and kicking on Mumsnet.
As I've also said before, thank god it's not you who gets to decide who does and doesn't have children, Clouds.

CloudsAndTrees · 09/01/2013 19:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

OttilieKnackered · 09/01/2013 19:06

I'm a young, single woman with no children. I earn a fairly decent wage (just above national average). I am very healthy and take no regular medication.

Therefore, I 'take' less than a lot of people out of the system.

I pay the requisite amount of tax, as well as paying back the £20,000 of student loans I had to take out to get the career I'm in now.

I just can't, for the life of me, get worked up about people who live on benefits, through choice or otherwise. I thank my lucky stars that I'm fit and able to work, that I have the skills and opportunities to have a fulfilling career I love with loads of opportunities to progress. That I haven't been fucked over by some man who sweet talked me and then left me holding the baby, or decided to abuse me. That I'm able to earn enough money to live, have a few luxuries, and make a contribution to the 'pot'.

I feel lucky that I am able to do this and don't have to rely on benefits. I just don't understand the feeling aggrieved at those less fortunate than me.

Bogeyface · 09/01/2013 19:11

I find it interesting that the majority of people saying "hang on, its not all ipads" are the people who actually have experience of living on benefits.

Have any of you benefit bashers actually had to survive on benefits? And suffered the physical and emotional problems that come with it?

When you are considered by the rest of society to be a worthless scrounger then you start to believe it. When I was a single mum on income support I didnt live the life of Riley. I did live on anti depressants though.

Come back when you actually have experience of what you are talking about instead of "I know someone who......." .

AmberLeaf · 09/01/2013 19:14

Clouds, you don't have to believe me.

What Im saying is correct as anyone who, like bogeyface says has actual experience of living on benefits will tell you.

Bogeyface · 09/01/2013 19:16

www.poverty.org.uk/62/index.shtml

It says that 24% of people in poverty have depression compared to 14% who are not poor. Still think its all fun?

Bogeyface · 09/01/2013 19:16

www.poverty.org.uk/62/index.shtml

EastHollyDaleStreet · 09/01/2013 19:16

I was a single mother on Income Support in the early 90's. I have to say, I'm afraid I bloody loved it! In those days, all my rent was paid, got free school dinners for dd, fed and clothed us both and could do what I wanted. Can't believe I'm admitting that, and I'm pretty sure, no, I know, I'd hate it now.

Lilithmoon · 09/01/2013 19:17

OttilieKnackered what a brilliant post.
It is saddens me that people like the OP have nothing better to do then stir up trouble like this, based on fiction.

Bubblegum78 · 09/01/2013 19:18

I think you are right to be cross actually and she should get her lazy arse out to work!

I've been a single parent on benefits and she is just spewing excuses, she clearly has no intention of going to work because she told you!

What a life to aspire too!

Why others on here are defending her is beyond me??

There's no point them calling you judgmental because they are judging you for judging her.

People blame the government for the state of the country, well it's not just their fault, it's the legions of people who think the same as your mate.

Before people judge me for benefit bashing I'm not, there's a difference between being genuinly in need and just being lazy and popping kids out because you don't like the idea of working for a living.

expatinscotland · 09/01/2013 19:21

Yawn. 0/10.

ReallyTired · 09/01/2013 19:25

Some children on benefits have been given the IPADs by their fathers. I know a little boy whose father bought him the latest IPhone with a contract for his birthday so that his son can phone him easily. However the said Dad is appauling about paying maintaince. He has bought the IPhone to ease his guilt rather than paying for the shoes his son so badly needs.

It is perfectly possible to own expensive gadgets, and be on the poverty line without commiting fraud. Do you honestly think the Mum should lose her benefits because her son has been given an IPAD? It smacks of the attitudes of some of the characters in the books written by Charles Dickens.

thekidsrule · 09/01/2013 19:26

i bought my son an ipad on benefits with cash so yes it can be done

flame away

CloudsAndTrees · 09/01/2013 19:26

Amber, what you say is correct from what you know, but what I say is also correct from what I know.

The difference is that I believe that some people on benefits are having a genuinely hard time, I know that's a fact for many people. But I can also see that it's not that way for everyone. Some people do choose to be on benefits, they really do! I don't understand why some people are so opposed convinced that no one ever plans the timing of their children deliberately so that they can stay off work and on income support for as long as possible.

Bogey, you had a fair point when you talked about your experience. And I'm sure your experience isn't isolated. But it is quite small minded to assume that your experience is the same as everyone else's. and when you talk about poverty, then you are talking about poverty. That affects working people too, not just those who live purely on benefits.

HoHoHoNoYouDont · 09/01/2013 19:29

OP, I feel your frustration with your friend. She's a self confessed benefit scrounger and yes, there are many out there unfortunately. There are many more however that don't scrounge and are genuinely needy.

Someone up thread said they didn't know any scroungers. Well not to worry, I know enough for the lot of us. Their entitled attitude disgusts me but I know they won't be able to sustain this lifestyle when the benefit changes bite. I just feel sorry for the truly needy who will have to suffer as a result of the scrounger's greed.

CloudsAndTrees · 09/01/2013 19:30

I'm not going to flame you thekidsrule. I thank you for your honesty. And you EastHolly.

Bogeyface · 09/01/2013 19:32

I realise that, but what is pissing me off the attitude that everyone on benefits should be put through the ringer because of a minority that take the piss.

2 years on benefits before you are on your own has been suggested. And what happens to the thousands who have, like my husband, recently been made redundant? There are not enough jobs to go around, so what would happen to my family if neither of us could get a job in that time?

Its all well and good saying its wrong, but unless you make things even worse for families like mine, then its just a fact of life.

EastHollyDaleStreet · 09/01/2013 19:33

As I say, I'd hate it now but I am a different person in a different place - and anyway, the time I did have to 'sign on' in the past few years, because I lost my job, we were stuffed as we have a mortgage. Luckily I got a job very quickly but it was ridiculously hard - DH was working p/t so we got nothing like FSD. Anyway, that's a whole other situation.

CloudsAndTrees · 09/01/2013 19:40

Personally Bogey, I wouldn't go out to make things worse for families like yours. I just wouldn't give out child tax credits, I'd give out free childcare instead, making it possible for you to work if you were able to. I'd cap CB to two children, because anyone who has more is taking a very big risk, and I wouldn't pay anything for children conceived while two parents were out of work.

The fact is that there are so many more worthy things that this country could spend its limited money on, and I just don't think that a system that actively encourages people who have little inclination to work to have more and more children. That's not saying that I want to be able to choose who has children (for Dawn's benefit!) it's saying that people have to be made to take responsibility for their own lives and their own children.

ReallyTired · 09/01/2013 19:52

I find this thread depressing. People are making judgments about intensively personal situations they know little about.

Schools are increasingly using the internet more and more for homework. This puts poor kids at a major disadvantage. An IPad is essentially a computer and if an IPad can be used for SAM learning then there is some point.

Or do you not want the children of those on benefits to get the educational benefits of the internet?

AmberLeaf · 09/01/2013 19:52

Clouds, what do you know though?

All you know about is someone elses experience and that is based on what they choose to tell you.

If you are a singe parent of one on £125 per week, you cant afford to pay cash for an ipad, unless you are taking out credit/loans etc.

kidsrule, how did you manage that then? social fund loan?

AmberLeaf · 09/01/2013 19:53

...and what bills did you not pay to be able to buy one, they cost about £400 dont they?

usualsuspect · 09/01/2013 19:55

Did you join MN just to whine about nasty benefit scroungers OP?

Bogeyface · 09/01/2013 19:57

So you would stop tax credits? What would we live on then?

Tax credits arent just paid to those in work, they form part of the support that we get while we are out of work. Without tax credits we would have survive on £111 a week, for 7 of us!

And I would like to remind you that between us, we have paid in almost 50 years worth of tax and NI. I think that we are entitled to some of that back when we need it!

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