not lack of jobs - lack of ambition!

[eggs11]

I know very, very little about politics, and if you can help me see this from a different perspective, please do!

A friend is a labour party member, and we recently had a row.I have a good friend (I like her for her personality, not for her life choices) who had a baby at 16 and is on benefits. She has a now 4 year old, starting school in September. She has a huge two bed flat in london (we would love to live where she does! but couldn't afford it), sky tv, the child has a nintendo ds, new clothes all the time, constant days out. I said it makes me angry that me and DP work (we also had a baby young) really really hard. Firstly, I had to go back after 9months, while she gets to sit on her bum until her kid is 5. Secondly, she gets free childcare! She had 2year old funding and 3 year old funding, while the £50 a day to put my 1year old in nursery makes it barely worth me working.

This is the point where we had a row. My labour friend said that it's not her fault that she's on benefits, there's no jobs to make it worth her working. However, if you spoke to my other friend, she has never even considered working. She said to me last week, when her daughter goes to full time school in sept, she has two options: 1) have another baby and get another 5years 6months, which she's planning on doing. 2)Wait until sept, then she has another 6months on job seekers to get pregnant. HOW IS THAT FAIR????? she isn't even looking after her daughter for the past two years, because she's in nursery. Why does this woman get to sit on her bum with free childcare? Why isn't she made to do voluntary work as a fully abled 22 year old with 10 gcse's, or at least made to go with her daughter to nursery and learn parenting skills, which is what I assume they think she lacks if her daughter gets so much funding!

I'm not saying that everyone on benefits/job seekers allowance isn't looking for work. I know how hard it was for DP to find work, it took months of hundreds of applications. I'm saying that while a life on benefits is so cushty and just relies on a baby every five years, no one has the incentive to work! labours answer was increase the working wage. I disagree, she's comfortable, why would she go out to work just for a few extra quid a week?

[eggs11]

Well funny enough Betty. I am a good friend. She is a clever girl, with hard working parents but has now got comfortable. You think a good friend should let someone rot like that? Because she will. She's comfortable now, better off than me. But I've got a career. I can't afford the same flat as she's got, but in ten years I'll have a big house. So I think being a good friend means giving her a reality check that's its not going to be okay to live like that forever. She may have money now while her daughter wants things that cost a few quid in Claire's or poundland. But soon she'll want £100 trainers and an ipod. SO YES I AM A GOOD FRIEND ACTUALLY!

[Allonsy]

what a weird post. All children get 15 hours a week at nursery, what the parents do in that time is their business, i used it to get 2 hours peace per day!

and there is a severe lack of jobs out their especially in some areas and where working for minimum wage plus childcare CAN make you considerably worse off, its the system that needs changed i dont think you can blame though stuck in it.

[coppertop]

Small point but if your 22yr-old friend had a baby at 16, wouldn't they be older than 4yrs?

[ILoveSaladReallyIDo]

OP the 15 hrs are hardly "childcare" when where I live you cannot take it at once, has to be 3 separate sessions, so doesn't allow much time for work by the time you drop off and pick up

Theres 153hrs left in the week once you take away the 15, so she's hardly sitting on her arse not looking after her daughter

[CloudsAndTrees]

it is the minimum amount that they decide.

What they have decided is too much.

If someone living off benefits can afford to buy their child an iPad, and still be able to go out at the weekend, then they are getting too much.

[eggs11]

Kind of getting side tracked about the nursery thing? My point is, she's still allowed to sit round till her kid goes to school,then do it all again! Her lifestyle is being funded by all of us working. No one should make a choice to live of others. Benefits are to help people, not to be entitled to!

[cory]

You know it's January when the wintervaal subsides into the sea leaving the field for the usual mythical friends with benefit lifestyles.

[Xmasfun]

Yanbu I have a friend who brings in more money in benefits then I earn ! And I have 3 children to look after. But unfortunately the government seem to think that people on benefits need more to live on than those of us who actually get up in the morning drag our kids out at silly I clock and go to work !

[cory]

"But soon she'll want £100 trainers and an ipod. SO YES I AM A GOOD FRIEND ACTUALLY! "

Has noone told you that there is an answer to a child who wants £100 trainers and an ipod? Perhaps your friend can tell it to you?

[eggs11]

yes very mythical cory all of us that have said we know someone like that...

[Xmasfun]

We should copy what the USA a time limit for claiming job seekers like 2 yrs Max after that u will have to sponge your way rounds friends sofas till you find a job and pay your way

[jellybeans]

'I had to go back after 9months, while she gets to sit on her bum until her kid is 5'.

That depends if you see raising a child as sitting on your ass or as a worthwhile vocation/job; albeit unpaid if it happens to be your own child. For me I don't resent lone parents being able to SAH as I myself am a SAHM with a partner who works. Even as part of a couple I am often exhausted so having to do it all myself 24/7 would be hard work. ALL the gardening and house stuff PLUS full responsibility for the DC! Why not vent about the men that do not pay their way?

You are not a real friend if you are so resentful.

[LadyBeagleEyes]

Ah, first post eggs11.
This 'friend' is imaginary, isn't she?

[eggs11]

I think after one child then that's it. You get 9months of income support. Working mums only get 9months materninty why does she get until the kids 5?

[AmberLeaf]

cory

What they have decided is too much

If someone living off benefits can afford to buy their child an iPad, and still be able to go out at the weekend, then they are getting too much

Who's got an ipad?

[CaptainNancy]

sorry- what is stopping you fromdoing the same thing, if you think it's so great?
Oh, could it be because you want a future? Not so grea then, is it?

[cory]

Xmasfun Wed 09-Jan-13 13:52:45
"We should copy what the USA a time limit for claiming job seekers like 2 yrs Max after that u will have to sponge your way rounds friends sofas till you find a job and pay your way "

And you don't think this might conceivably lead to a rise in crime rates?

[coppertop]

Methinks the ipad is the new 'plasma TV' on these threads.

Should the goat get an upgrade too?

[LadyBeagleEyes]

An Alpaca, coppertop?

[CaptainNancy]

No eggs- most of us do not know anyone like this!
I certainly don't.

[Xmasfun]

So we just carry on looking after those who have never contributed into the system ? I thought u pay in you get some help back ? But loads of ppl have never even paid into it!

[TantrumsAndBalloons]

wont someone please think of the poor Ipad

FWIW when me and dh were made redundant at the same time a few years ago we claimed jobseekers and housing benefit.
There was no money for days out, new clothes, ipads, there was basically enough money to feed a family of 5, pay gas/electric/water, and whatever bits and bobs came up during that fortnight.
It was not a life of luxury at all and we only did it for 5 months.

Why do people think living on a minimum amount of money from the government is the life of riley?

[EastHollyDaleStreet]

D'you know, I actually do have a friend who admits, to her shame, that she is better off 'on benefits' She hates it and has been applying for jobs, which she will take if she gets offered one. Of course, everyone's circs are different but it can happen.

[Narked]

How lovely that you decided to join Mumsnet to share your concerns.

[CloudsAndTrees]

Why are some people so determined to believe that people like this are imaginary or 'mythical'.

Is it really so hard to believe that when you can live a pretty good lifestyle without having to do anything other than give birth then there are going to be a lot of people that do so?

There are plenty of people that do this thing of having babies evenly spaced out so that they can live off other people for years and years. If you don't want to admit it, then you are probably one of them.

I'm sure if working age benefits were only paid out for children who were conceived while both parents were working, the accidental pregnancy rate would drop dramatically.