not lack of jobs - lack of ambition!

[eggs11]

I know very, very little about politics, and if you can help me see this from a different perspective, please do!

A friend is a labour party member, and we recently had a row.I have a good friend (I like her for her personality, not for her life choices) who had a baby at 16 and is on benefits. She has a now 4 year old, starting school in September. She has a huge two bed flat in london (we would love to live where she does! but couldn't afford it), sky tv, the child has a nintendo ds, new clothes all the time, constant days out. I said it makes me angry that me and DP work (we also had a baby young) really really hard. Firstly, I had to go back after 9months, while she gets to sit on her bum until her kid is 5. Secondly, she gets free childcare! She had 2year old funding and 3 year old funding, while the £50 a day to put my 1year old in nursery makes it barely worth me working.

This is the point where we had a row. My labour friend said that it's not her fault that she's on benefits, there's no jobs to make it worth her working. However, if you spoke to my other friend, she has never even considered working. She said to me last week, when her daughter goes to full time school in sept, she has two options: 1) have another baby and get another 5years 6months, which she's planning on doing. 2)Wait until sept, then she has another 6months on job seekers to get pregnant. HOW IS THAT FAIR????? she isn't even looking after her daughter for the past two years, because she's in nursery. Why does this woman get to sit on her bum with free childcare? Why isn't she made to do voluntary work as a fully abled 22 year old with 10 gcse's, or at least made to go with her daughter to nursery and learn parenting skills, which is what I assume they think she lacks if her daughter gets so much funding!

I'm not saying that everyone on benefits/job seekers allowance isn't looking for work. I know how hard it was for DP to find work, it took months of hundreds of applications. I'm saying that while a life on benefits is so cushty and just relies on a baby every five years, no one has the incentive to work! labours answer was increase the working wage. I disagree, she's comfortable, why would she go out to work just for a few extra quid a week?

[Vagaceratops]

Yes, a cross between and

[PessaryPam]

We used to live next door to a benefit cheat. They do exist you know.

[DolomitesDonkey]

YANBU - but pity her for her lack of ambition.

[realcoalfire]

'I don't understand why you think qualifying for a nursery place means a lack of parenting skills
Everybody (yes even you) gets 3 yo funding and 2 yo funding is for children living in poverty, poor housing etc.

[ArielThePiraticalMermaid]

I feel a bit for posters who start these threads sometimes. It's clearly as issue which bugs a lot of people i.e. that they work very hard and life is getting harder and pay is getting worse, whereas someone who apparently made "poorer" choices that they did (those choices we were warned about) is seemingly being given a much easier ride. Yes there is an element of "it's not faaaaaaaair!" but that never became easier just because we became adults. And then they try and start a chat about it on MN little realising that it really isn't the Done Thing

Rightly or wrongly, this can obviously be irritating.

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing by the way; I am not backing the OP up or shooting her down, but I am saying that someone can't even mention this subject without a flurry of faces and biscuit emoticons, and exhortions to mind their own business. If everyone minded their own business about everything, MN would be a very quiet place indeed.

[TantrumsAndBalloons]

eggs you cannot live a cushy life on benefits.

I know because I have claimed benefits

Have you?

[VinegarTits]

why are you vilifying your friend? where the fuck is the father(s) and why are they not paying for these children?

you should be shouting about why men in our society are allowed to get women pregnant then fuck off allowing the state to pay for their keep

you alos come across as very jealous and bitter about the choices she is making

[Viviennemary]

Well it would be difficult for her to get a job that pays enough to make it worth while her working if she is on her own with two children. However, it has to be an issue that some people are tearing round like headless chickens juggling work, and childcare, paying huge nursery fees whilst others are exempt from this stress.

[takeaway2]

storminateacup - they owned their council house. you do/did get to buy it after living in it for a long time. So she sold it. and no one said anything about being in prison?!!!

[BunFagFreddie]

"Nursery education - still not being looked after by the parents though. Why don't parents have to go with them and learn about ways to help their kids learn? rather than giving them 15hours a week to sit in wetherspoons (which is what she does soemtimes) "

It's the beginning of a child's education and you'll probably find that a lot of mums are happy to lend a helping hand. Would you feel differently if they have DH looking after them, rather than being a single parent? Also, are you aware of the fact that a lot of companies don't actually like to employ mums with young children? Yes it's illegal, but it still goes on. Most of us could find ourselves single and on benefits if things took a bad turn.

Nursery is the same as sending a child to school. I really don't understand your beef at this.

[Vagaceratops]

Why don't parents have to go with them and learn about ways to help their kids learn?

I am sure you will feel differently when your own DS reaches 3. Will you be giving up work then?

[ouryve]

My kids get babysat all day, btw. It's called school.

[ReallyTired]

My daughter gets baby sat 3 hours a day at school nursery. However its only term time and there aren't any jobs that fit into 3 hours a day term time only. I gave up work as its was getting financially silly to pay for after school care and breakfast club for ds and day nursery for dd as well as diseal to get to work after a pay cut.

"However, it has to be an issue that some people are tearing round like headless chickens juggling work, and childcare, paying huge nursery fees whilst others are exempt from this stress. "

What is so virteous about doing a job that doesn't cover your costs if you don't enjoy your job. Why be a headless chicken if it doesn't make financial sense? I am not sure that lone parents should be forced into work if it costs the state more to subsise their childcare costs. The govenant are planing to force benefits families out of london with universal benefits cap of 26K.

"She had 2year old funding and 3 year old funding, while the £50 a day to put my 1year old in nursery makes it barely worth me working. "

I hope that you get more than 3 hours nursery care for £50. When we had dd in day nursery we got ten hours of care, breakfast, lunch, dinner and snack for £45. School nursery only provides 300ml of milk. In our area it costs £12 a morning to send a child to private pre school and there is no snack as far as I know. You can choose to use nursery vouchers at the private pre school.

I think the OP should worry less about other people. She is clearly jelous.

[jellybeans]

' when you can live a pretty good lifestyle without having to do anything other than give birth'

...and raise your child presumably. Women have been having babies since time began yet the way 'work' is now is a fairly recent thing. It doesn't always fit in with raising children. Many people would rather be with their small child than work. Even more so if that child has been through trauma and already lost one parent!

[AmberLeaf]

chandon re your friend who dumped her child on you and was sent to prison for benefit fraud..that is benefit fraud, not the same as the massive majority of genuine benefit claimants.

Cloudsand Trees, anyone on benefits who can afford an Ipad has either got it on credit, got it as part of a mobile phone contract or has money coming in from somewhere else, you CAN NOT afford Ipads on benefits.

[Vagaceratops]

Ipad = at least 4 weeks of disposable income on the benefits you get for 1 child.

[Dawndonna]

I'd be more inclined to listen if you could spell, construct a sentence and use grammar.
But hey ho!

[CloudsAndTrees]

I wish I could believe you Amber, but I don't. She's not the only one I know who has bought expensive presents for their children while on benefits.

I appreciate that not everyone on benefits can afford these things, but it is a fact that some clearly can.

[Dawndonna]

And those that do probably end up in serious debt.

[EastHollyDaleStreet]

Ipad = probably a few more weeks of the 'disposable income ' we have both working.