to use a donor egg and an Indian surrogate to have a child (long)?

[2aminthemorning]

I'm in my thirties and in a wheelchair since a pregnancy damaged my pelvis. We have a daughter of 18 months old. DH has a good job and we have a pleasant quality of life. I care for DD with the help of a lovely girl from the village.

DH adores babies/children and is born to be a dad. We had always hoped to have a good size of a family. Before I became disabled, we'd been seriously considering leaving the UK to work in an orphanage in India alongside some friends who are already there, with the intention of starting a smaller sister orphanage in a neighbouring region. We'd assumed that we'd probably end up adopting as a result of that.

Now we're in a position where it would be a huge risk to have another child. Even egg retrieval is not advised. We've been told that we would probably not be passed as adoptive parents either, because of my disability. That was a blow.

Regarding surrogacy...I wouldn't be comfortable about not paying for it - it would be the least we could do. And if we were to enter into such a surrogacy arrangement, we'd rather do so with a surrogate who is going to find the money very helpful in her life (i.e. start a small business, pay for education etc.). We came across a clinic in India that is known as a gold standard for medical ethics and talked to the director about the welfare of the women in her care. She was very positive about the practical impact of surrogacy on the lives of the women she'd worked with.

Regarding the donor egg, I see the pitfalls (emotional work for the child to process as he/she grows up, lack of information about egg donor, potential strain in the family dynamic). I'm sure there are more. Not to diminish them, but surely those negatives wouldn't outweigh the significance of being alive in a loving family.

Is this whole idea unreasonable?

Why India?

Are you, your DH, DD Indian?

If you are very very sure about the ethics of the source for the surrogate mother I'll leave that, but it was the first thing that came to my mind because I've read some terrible stories.

Wouldn't be overly worried about egg donation would be VERY worried about surrogacy. It's notoriously corrupt there and I would trust gold standard to not have a factory of women in the background.

You say you worked over there, is there any way to have a one 2 one relationship with a surrogate you know is willing, able and cared for and then use a clinic for the proceedures?

I must say I'm shocked you would be turned down for adoption due to disability

*wouldnt

Wora a lot of people are using India as surrogates are allowed to be paid, there is a lot of poverty ergo lots of women willing to do it. Legalities I believe also mean the surrogates are unlikely to change their mind and try and keep the baby.

It's horribly exploitative of very vulnerable women. These women are desperately poor. Will her health be affected? Will she be treated properly? Is she doing this of her own free will or being coerced? will she have emotional support to cope with giving birth and giving up the child? Has she been properly assessed? How many babies will she give birth to for this purpose? Has she chosen this from a range of career options or is it literally rent out her womb or starve?

The people who are trying to sell you this woman's womb are of course going to say how happy she is, how great the service is and how well they take care of her. Doesn't make it true.

Why not use a British surrogate?

Being told you probably wouldn't be passed as adoptive parents, isn't the same as actually being turned down, so I would pursue that

YABU about indian surrogate though, its a terribly corrupt abusive system for most, unless as suggested you find one privately yourself through your contacts

Have you thought about where you would get the donor egg from?

You say you wouldn't be comfortable not paying a surrogate (presumably that's why you wouldn't b looking for a surrogate in the UK) but egg donation is not exactly quick and easy and painless and side-effect-free either, so would you feel comfortable not paying for the egg(s)?

Oh I see softly thanks.

I'm quite sure there are ways round paying British surrogates

No-one's going to know if you privately bung them some money.

Why cant you adopt an indian child if youve been refused adoption in.britain?

Surrogates can't be paid in this country for good reason. As soon as cash comes into it, especially in countries where true poverty exists, you can't be sure that a woman isn't doing it because she has to or because of the financial incentive.

As for saying paying someone is 'the least you could do', perhaps some people care about more than money and wouldn't you rather not pay someone and be absolutely sure they were doing this of their own, absolute free will?

Everything Hecate said.

Why not use a British surrogate, and then bung the money you would have spent towards an Indian surrogate towards a worthwhile charity?

If you are happy with exploiting an Indian woman then fine.

I don't think it matters if a clinic has gold stars; if there are huge amounts of money on offer which a woman wouldn't be able to earn with ease under normal circumstances in exchange for child bearing that in itself is unethical.

Especially given you know only too well that complications, can and do happen in pregnancy.

I wouldn't say YABU. I would however say you are rather selfish and being very blinkered about what is defined as exploitation though.

I hope you think about it a little more, and look at other options and surrogacy that isn't going to exploit anyone.

Worra: Why India? It's where the clinics are.

Softly: The short answer is that I don't know if what you're suggesting is possible. However, the clinic carries out a screening process that includes family members and really does wish to make sure they aren't coerced or pressurised in any way. The director left a very high profile clinic because she was not satisfied with the treatment of women there. She said that many women approach the clinic to apply to be surrogates, so they have no incentive to overlook coercion. I'm not sure I'd feel confident about seeking out a woman who hadn't planned to be a surrogate, especially if my contact previously had been in a charitable context.

Hectate: I see that point of view, completely, and I can't speak for how women are generally treated in Indian surrogacy arrangements. An ethical clinic will only accept women who have completed their families (2 or 3 pregnancies), have no medical history of complications, are carrying a baby that is not genetically related to them, and no more than a maximum of two babies at a time, and I think there is a similar restriction on the number of pregnancies she can go through. However these rules are guidelines only and clinics have a choice about whether to follow them. I know the women are offered counselling because it's something that we'd be paying for. Regarding the assessment process, it sounds rigorous, but I'm not an expert. I agree with you about renting out her womb or starve - that sounds repugnant. At the same time, it may not be like that - a woman who has had three trouble free pregnancies might choose to go through a fourth in order to have independent means. That would be acceptable to me. I agree with what you're saying about taking the clinic's word for it. However, they have made a choice to publicise their ethics, rather than their success rates etc. They're flying under that flag and inviting onlookers to see what they're doing.

It is, at the end of the day, buying a woman's body. That wouldn't sit right with me. Why not use a British surrogate and donate money to an Indian orphanage if that works with your conscience?

'Why cant you adopt an indian child if youve been refused adoption in.britain?'

You need to be approved to adopt in Britain before you can adopt from abroad. It's not a case of 'you're not fit for a British child, go and get one from India'.

Hi there
Not really sure that AIBU may be the best place for this thread OP
DO let us know if you'd like us to move this to ourinfertility topic?
Thanks
MNHQ

There are many disabled adopters. This is worth looking into. You clearly manage very well with your child and you have good support. Why would this prevent you from adopting?

YABU. sorry but you sound good willed bu naieve. You seem to have done more research on hiring a surrogate form india of all places than on whether or not you cna adopt in the UK and have come to a conclusion based on hearsay. i'd avoid using a surrogate from a country which is currently being slated for its disregard for women's rights. Said clinic might be a 'gold standard' in medical ethics (according to who? judging by india's standard for ethics at the moment that isn't really much to go by is it) but India is also a gold standard in its crimes against womankind. The director would be positive about the woman's welfare as you are a paying customer. Sounds all very dubious to me.

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I would be very wary of the "stars" credit - it is just marketing unless you have been there & met the women involved. The system is terribly corrupt, you will be a paying customer and therefore the priority to this company, not the woman or the babies.

I wouldn't / couldn't go through with it. I think YABU. There are other routes to persue before buying a very desperate woman's womb.

It's tough...every news and documentary I've seen on Indian surrogates showed women confined to the property under strict rules (not just health homes but the abilty to leave the building) and laying in rows and rows of beds. Some women do it to give life to another woman but I can't help to think all those women in India are forced into it by poverty, and/or their husbands or family.

Isn't there some sort of issue with the children being Indian citizens and thus ineligible to settle in the UK? I'm sure I've read something about that... I'm also assuming that the father would be your DH, with a donor egg, so would you have to adopt the child to be recognised as its' mother - just wondering if that would then stumble if you've been told you would be unable to adopt in the UK (although I bow to Mrs DV's superior knowledge there - all I know is that we were told we couldn't adopt because of DH's health issues (history of cancer), even though that was why we couldn't conceive naturally in the first place).