to use a donor egg and an Indian surrogate to have a child (long)?

[2aminthemorning]

I'm in my thirties and in a wheelchair since a pregnancy damaged my pelvis. We have a daughter of 18 months old. DH has a good job and we have a pleasant quality of life. I care for DD with the help of a lovely girl from the village.

DH adores babies/children and is born to be a dad. We had always hoped to have a good size of a family. Before I became disabled, we'd been seriously considering leaving the UK to work in an orphanage in India alongside some friends who are already there, with the intention of starting a smaller sister orphanage in a neighbouring region. We'd assumed that we'd probably end up adopting as a result of that.

Now we're in a position where it would be a huge risk to have another child. Even egg retrieval is not advised. We've been told that we would probably not be passed as adoptive parents either, because of my disability. That was a blow.

Regarding surrogacy...I wouldn't be comfortable about not paying for it - it would be the least we could do. And if we were to enter into such a surrogacy arrangement, we'd rather do so with a surrogate who is going to find the money very helpful in her life (i.e. start a small business, pay for education etc.). We came across a clinic in India that is known as a gold standard for medical ethics and talked to the director about the welfare of the women in her care. She was very positive about the practical impact of surrogacy on the lives of the women she'd worked with.

Regarding the donor egg, I see the pitfalls (emotional work for the child to process as he/she grows up, lack of information about egg donor, potential strain in the family dynamic). I'm sure there are more. Not to diminish them, but surely those negatives wouldn't outweigh the significance of being alive in a loving family.

Is this whole idea unreasonable?

The very fact that these women need the money/do it for a better standard of living means they are in a way being forced into it. Unless, of course, there are hoardes of rich Indian women flocking to clinics asking to become surrogates..... No? Thought not...

YABU. I think you are trying to find reasons to justify something you know is actually quite selfish and exploitative. Could you look into adopting a child from abroad?

Just saw the other posts...

There really aren't other ways around paying a British surrogate because it would cause the agency you're using to lose credibility. That wouldn't be fair. And you have to use an agency because advertising is illegal. It's also good practice and I struggle to see how this suggestion is ethically preferable...

saintmerryweather: You have to be approved in Britain as an adoptive parent before adopting from abroad.

midori: I see your point of view and think it's very valid. But personally, I'm not sure that I would feel as you've described. I find British surrogate mothers do sometimes sound like lonely people who should not have got past a screening test. So there's an ethical question there. I would also point out that Indian clinic who choose to follow guidelines are obliged to take good care of surrogates. Limited number of pregnancies etc. Not necessarily ethically backward in all respects though still take the point.

redtoothbrush: A woman who has had two or three straightforward pregnancies is not going to develop the condition that I have. I do accept what you say, though. I'd wish to make it very clear that ethical guidelines include the health of the surrogate coming first at every stage.

What if the help from the lovely girl in the village drys up.

I think you need to focus on how are you going to raise 2( or more incase if twins ect) if you have no help.

' Could you look into adopting a child from abroad?'

You cannot adopt from abroad without being approved here first.

YABU to consider exploiting poor women to complete your family.

www.theage.com.au/national/mothers-for-hire-20120906-25hi1.html

articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-05-17/ahmedabad/31748277_1_surrogate-mother-surrogacy-couples

Are the ethical guidelines self-administered? Are they self-monitored? I don't even know if a poor woman in another, much poorer country would put her OWN health first over the money for her children etc. The chances of the clinic doing it are zero.

I think the help might be paid for McNew, like a mothers help type thing

I am donor-conceived, that is to say, I was conceived using a sperm donor. As it was 30+ years ago the donor was anonymous. I hate not knowing who my biological father is. I love my 'social' dad but I'd wouldn't be me without the input of this other man so I'm irrevocably linked to him. 'Love is enough', 'the real father is the one who changes the nappies', 'you should just be grateful to be alive', I've heard all the platitudes and they're not true - as far as I'm concerned I have three parents, though I don't know what kind of relationship with the donor I'd want if I was able to trace him (I'm trying to trace him; I'd definitely want to exchange photos and information). Please, please do not go abroad and use an anonymous donor. Anonymity was lifted in this country in 2005 for a very good reason i.e. it was finally recognised that donor-conceived people, like adopted people, should be able to trace their biological parents.

The Donor Conception Network is a good source of advice and support for people thinking about conceiving using a donor. They will be able to talk to you about surrogacy too.

Www.hfea.gov.uk is the regulatory authority in the UK for egg donation and has information about surrogacy

There is no equivalent body in India, so you have no assurance of quality, safety, ethics other than someone word.

You need to research this properly and understand why in international law human tissue of any type (including use of human body as is e.g. Surrogacy) MUST be freely given with no financial incentive before you go any further.

I think you would need to be careful of what agency you went with if you chose to use an Indian surrogate. It was all over the news last year or the year before,I remember watching a documentary on it.

I could maybe understand you being willing to overlook all the issues people have raised (as has been said, they are being forced - by poverty - and however aspirational their ethic may be, the fact that it couldn't happen here tells you the ethical standards are below what we should expect), i could get that you'd go to these lengths if you had no children, but you do have a precious child already. I understand that fate has put paid to your plans for a bigger family and how painful that must be, but that doesn't make this right. Please do explore ethical options here - adoption or fostering - and keep money out of it. It sounds like you (perhaps unconsciously) want to pay because you know it's not right.

Couples using surrogates have six months after their child's birth to register as the legal parents when they bring the baby back to Britain. They must go to court and effectively adopt the child.

There are some terrible stories about the poor women working as surrogates. They mostly have families and children themselves, who they are restricted from seeing. And a lot of women have died later from complications/ not received adequate medical care when giving birth. Yes, they get paid a lot but some are forced into it by husbands and family. It is very morally dodgy in my eyes.
Of course I'm sure there are some women who are very happy surrogates and the majority of cases lead to healthy babies and ladies but i wouldn't do it.

I have the forms and intend to register as a surrogate when my youngest turns 1 and I somewhat resent your comment that only sad lonely women become surrogates here. Saying that, I have never met a surrogate, but surely not all are as you describe. The absence of any financial incentive ensures that it is only people who genuinely want to do this do it. And if/ when I do it I would not be put off choosing intended parents due to disability but I certainly wouldn't choose someone who was judgemental and had no respect for surrogates as a whole.

Although payment to a UK surrogate isn't allowed, what IS allowed are 'expenses'. It isn't unusual for a British surrogate to get in excess of £15,000. Do you think there are legitimately £15000 worth of expenses involved in an average surrogacy agreement, or could the word expenses just be more acceptable than the word payment?

I missed the comment about you judging British surrogates as lonely people who shouldn't get through the screening process. You don't deserve a surrogate with that opinion.

I really am quite intrigued as to why you feel you NEED to pay someone to do this?

On the flip side Traineebabycatcher, why should women who want to be surrogates have to do it altruistically? Why shouldn't there be financial compensation for the months of sickness, pain and childbirth?

mrs devere: The advice came from the top so yes I feel sure.

mcnewpants: Why would the help dry up? At the moment, there aren't enough jobs for everyone. We have had a few girls (all lovely) and always fill the post without a problem.

sunnywithshowers: See where you're coming from. That's why I'm posting.

I'm looking at British surrogacy done poorly, where a surrogate can be a very fragile, vulnerable person who longs to feel special and wanted. I find that morally distasteful. And it often seems to be packaged as friendship, glossing over the complex transaction that's actually taking place. At this Indian clinic, I seem to be looking at a situation wherein a woman without means is able to generate a means to independence in a relatively short space of time, living in pleasant surroundings where she is protected (possibly for the first time) from any form of violence. A woman in real poverty would be highly unlikely to be accepted as a surrogate at an ethical clinic, as her health would be further compromised by a pregnancy.

The system in both countries needs regulation. DH and I have agreed to support a charity that does this regardless.

I want to be a surrogate as I have known people who can't have kids and my pregnancies have been relatively easy. I realise expenses can be claimed but realistically would only expect to be reimbursed for travel expenses, childcare and perhaps some maternity clothes. But if I was still working (i used to be a solicitor) then I can see how lost wages could mount up. But I still don't see it as being "paid".

'Why shouldn't there be financial compensation for the months of sickness, pain and childbirth?'

because buying and selling babies is grim?

You aren't buying and selling babies. You are paying for a surrogate to give up a year of her life, 24/7, to give you a healthy baby. You are compensating her for the piles, the sleepiness nights, the days vomiting into the toilet, the abstinence from alcohol/tobacco, the wear and tear on her body etc.