to use a donor egg and an Indian surrogate to have a child (long)?

[2aminthemorning]

I'm in my thirties and in a wheelchair since a pregnancy damaged my pelvis. We have a daughter of 18 months old. DH has a good job and we have a pleasant quality of life. I care for DD with the help of a lovely girl from the village.

DH adores babies/children and is born to be a dad. We had always hoped to have a good size of a family. Before I became disabled, we'd been seriously considering leaving the UK to work in an orphanage in India alongside some friends who are already there, with the intention of starting a smaller sister orphanage in a neighbouring region. We'd assumed that we'd probably end up adopting as a result of that.

Now we're in a position where it would be a huge risk to have another child. Even egg retrieval is not advised. We've been told that we would probably not be passed as adoptive parents either, because of my disability. That was a blow.

Regarding surrogacy...I wouldn't be comfortable about not paying for it - it would be the least we could do. And if we were to enter into such a surrogacy arrangement, we'd rather do so with a surrogate who is going to find the money very helpful in her life (i.e. start a small business, pay for education etc.). We came across a clinic in India that is known as a gold standard for medical ethics and talked to the director about the welfare of the women in her care. She was very positive about the practical impact of surrogacy on the lives of the women she'd worked with.

Regarding the donor egg, I see the pitfalls (emotional work for the child to process as he/she grows up, lack of information about egg donor, potential strain in the family dynamic). I'm sure there are more. Not to diminish them, but surely those negatives wouldn't outweigh the significance of being alive in a loving family.

Is this whole idea unreasonable?

Op - you can pay a UK surrogate expenses. I believe this can include loss of earnings. Therefore I'd try to find a UK surrogate rather than go to India.

The UK has very tight IVF rules, I'd stick with it for your sake, your child and any other women involved.

mummy2katie glad you're ok! A surrogate must have completed their family already as a first pregnancy is thought riskier. Take your point though.

Actually if you are using a donor egg why wouldn't you just adopt anyway?

Sorry I see you answered that already

Have you thought about adopting from abroad?

With what you said about thinking about working in an orphanage, you might find it a good fit for you?

Could you possibly talk to your friends who work in the orphange about it?

I read an article yesterday about a couple who were barred from adopting in the UK (due to age, iirc) and adopted from Russia where there are apparently 1 miillion children living in orphanages in pretty grim conditions and would be incredibly blessed by a loving home.

I have had 3 MC, no children as of yet, so I really appreciate how utterly desperate you can feel about wanting a child, and you have my real sympathy on this point, but I'm afraid I profoundly disagree with your idea that it is more ethical to use a surrogate from a place where money will change hands- it is the money in the equation that leads to the exploitation.

Yes, the clinic might be lovely to these women, but what about the pressures that may have been put upon them to apply- and what about how they are treated when they have to go home again, most to rural poverty with no support.

I really would rethink whether adding money to the equation is really ethical. I think it is not.

It sounds like you have had a horrific time with your previous PG and I really do wish you well and hope you get to complete your family.

I recently saw a documentary about this. It was heartbreaking. Most of the surrogates husbands' had decided not to work anymore because their wives could provide them a new house and educate their sons. They said it was all Women were really good for after all. The Women were like caged animals sleeping 8 to a room. C sections were a must. The women were howling after their babies taken away.
A man from eastern Europe wanted to set up a clinic in India. he had a detailed conversation with a doctor about what would happen if twins were conceived and they talked about abortions to get the correct about of foetuses. It was sickening.
Open your eyes. The documentary is on 4 of I will look it up....

2am a surrogate doesn't have to have completed her own family, nor even had a child herself. I know of at least three whose first babies were surrogate babies. Of course it is advisable, but if the surrogate is aware of the risks she is taking then there is nothing to stop her going ahead.

As the intended parent, you would be able to choose not to go ahead with a first-timer though.

Nancy, regardless of the eggs being intended parent's, donor's or surrogate's in this country the birth mother always has the right to keep the baby, the only safeguard being the intended father's genetic link to the baby, so he can apply to court for residence or contact. But it almost never happens.

Yes, I know how it works.

My view is that you should go for it if it feels right. Am I the only one who feels this way? I'm sure you'd find the right surrogate and give a child a loving home. As long as you're not hurting anyone then go for it. Good luck with it all, it sounds quite an adventure!

Yes it was in the Mail here

Thank you so much, apostropheuse, I could've danced when I read your post - so many people don't get it.

OP, I don't know if donor conception is wrong or not. I only know that anonymous donation is wrong. And all donors in India are anonymous, as the Indian Council of Medical Research prohibits the disclosure of the identity of the donor.

You might find this website interesting: anonymousus.org/stories/

And this article: www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/05/india-surrogates-impoverished-die

What if the child grows up, does his or her research and decides for themselves that renting the womb of someone so desperately poor, they feel they have no other life options, is abhorrent?

I know I would think far less of my parents if I found out they agreed with this practice, let alone actively supported and took part in it.

Why would you chose exploiting a desperate woman over someone from the UK who is doing it for altruistic reasons?

'As long as you're not hurting anyone then go for it'

Using impoverished Indian women to farm babies is hurting someone.

dooinmecleanin - Uk surrogacy can be every bit as murky as Indian. The fact is that very few women do it for altruistic money. Most do it for the money.

AlexanderS I have a portfolio of egg donors in my possession...photographs etc. It's not anonymous.

I appreciate the opinions and of course welcome the different perspectives offered. Must dash now but will check in later, i'm sorry.

Maybe, but in the UK women have access to better health care and basic human rights, so even if they are doing it for money, they are still in a better place than the Indian women.

louis you cannot adopt from abroad if you have not been approved in the UK.

Here is a quote from the article you linked to;

'We had begun the process in 2004, and were assigned a social worker by our local council in Kent, because even if you adopt from abroad you still have to go through the vetting process in Britain.'

Yes, I agree with that. But as with all fertility treatment it usually comes down to money and there's a hell of a difference between the £25k it could cost here and the £6k it could cost in India.

Dear 2am if it is not too late for you to change track and you can afford to do so financially I would urge you to use an egg sharing UK clinic and surrogate as you will certainly be able to help someone less fortunate than you who is also desperate to start or enlarge their family but cannot afford it and you can be confident about the medical care of all concerned as well as the future wellbeing of your child.

I'm sure you would want the best for your child and they may have a need to find their donor parent or half siblings for reasons you can't be certain about at this stage.

You could still make a substantial contribution to the orphanage you already have links with and make that the focus of your Indian connection.

It is good that you are trying to use your own difficult situation as a way to help others and that you are thinking carefully about all the implications xx

"Why don't you just use an English surrogate?"

Because they're almost as rare as hens teeth

"Why don't you adopt?"

Because its not that simple?

Op I have a surrogate daughter, born thru straight surrogacy, she's never not known her origins.
She knows that she wasn't bought, sold, unwanted. She was conceived specifically and wouldn't have been here if it wasn't for me.

(We actually didnt pay as very dear friend carried her and did for literal expenses, child are, food and clothes and the 10% top up on her 90% pay)

I read the article differently, Zoo.

They were not approved to adopt in the UK which is why they looked abroad.

The UK authorities then 'vetted' them for this process, which clearly can not be the same as approval, or else they would have failed, having previously not been approved. It does not say that the UK authorities had to approve them as adoptive parents in the UK anywhere in the article and this would not make sense in light of what they say.

Can you quote where they say they were not approved in the uk?

They may not have been offered a young child in the UK because there are not many young children available and younger couples will be prioritised. This is not the same as not being approved.

Can you imagine a system where we say 'you're not good enough for a British child, but you're welcome to a foreign one' .

Really?