To not feel rich even though husband earns £250k a year

[whoovian]

I don't feel rich - I scarcely feel comfortable on this level of income.

Why is that - I grew up in a very poor family (not enough food at times type of poor) so I know what poverty feels like.

We are not extravagent spenders - we have one 1 week european holiday a year, no savings however we do have 4 children in private school(!) and live in London.

I feel unreasonable when I consider how little income others survive on but what do you think?

OP, I sort of know where you are coming from. DH earns £122k plus circa 18% bonus. We have one son (2.4) and another on the way.

We live in a two bed ground floor in Kent. DS goes to nursery two mornings a week, costing £60 a week. We have one car, a second hand ford focus. DH spends £4.5k a yr on train travel. We have one holiday a yr, to SA to stay with family, and then maybe one europe mini break. We spend about £130 a week on groceries, nappies, cleaning stuff etc. We are careful with money, for instance we are having a bit of work done on the flat (two doors replaced and a window), but we have spent a good few hours researching best price and getting quotes.

In short, we are careful with money. And yet, like you, we do not feel rich.

Mumsnet is not the place for this sort of thread. I presume you are quite new to the site. A massive and great support in so many respects. Bring up money in any other way other than you are on the breadline, and you will be brought down quickly and sharply.

The truth is that the OP is not being unreasonable. There are a huge number of people in London like her who have no choice but to pay school fees and a huge price for a house and a high price for everything else - and yet stil only have a struggling middle class life after £250k of earnings.

The typical breakdown is as follows:

£250k Gross
£125k Net (after all taxes)

Mortgage or Rent £50k
School fees £50k (4 x £12.5 k)
Living Expense £50k

Net over spend £25k per annum which hopefully will be covered by annual bonus.

Just ditching school fees in London is really not an option unless you have children in grammar schools. As I said earlier it is this mathematics that makes people move out of London with a family.

I remember XH driving me to work when I was expecting DS1, and him saying he thought we should be putting money aside to send our children to private school. I laughed hollowly and asked how he thought we were going to afford that. I was at that time on a salary of around £16k, which would just about have covered private school fees if we didn't have to live anywhere or eat anything, and XH's business never made a bean. He did try saying (later strenuously denied) that we only had to worry about school fees if they were boys, because girls would be getting married so they didn't need such a good education...

And yet I not only stayed with the idiot but went on to have 3 more children with him. None of them were girls. And none of them were privately educated either.

It is pretty rich to be able to send 4 children to private school and live in London by most standards. However, I can appreciate that given those outgoings day-to-day life doesn't feel very rich at all.
My SIL/BIL live in London and have 3 children at private school and I doubt they would be able to maintain their non flashy lifestyle on £250K/year. Many of the parents of their childrens friends are very rich, I think that is why makes the difference - comparisons with what is normal for your 'circle'.
You will probably feel rich when your children aren't financially dependent on you and the mortgage is paid though!

fgs private schooling isn't compulsory, it's just he middle class dread of the comprehensive system

"Bring up money in any other way other than you are on the breadline, and you will be brought down quickly and sharply."

I think that is true, but is as it should be tbh, bbface.

OP, it seems to me a lot of your resentment does stem from your husbands decision to send your DC to private school from priimary onwards. If this was not a joint decision, and now you feel squeezed, and can see why you'd feel angry about it.

I thank my lucky starts to not live in London, to not move in circles that involve competitive dressing/schooling/car purchasing/holidaying. We have a massive mortgage for a huge house in an unexciting location with good primary and secondary state education and that does me just fine.

Maybe starting to write down 5 good things about your life everyday, would be a good exercise for you?? Or volunteer for Shelter for a while...
I have some sympathy for how you are not feeling 'rich', but really, get a grip and look at the real world for a change, and not just your bubble.

I think I feel more sorry for the people in London who have to cope with London prices, have no choice but to send their kids to state school and only earn a pittance because they clean the homes and offices of the 'struggling' middle class.

Of course she has a choice not to pay school fees.

Do you know where all the money is going or do you think you are earing so much you should be able to treate yourseleves and frittering it away on none items?

TBH I would expect you to be comfortable on that wage - ie can cover the bills, pay into pension, have luxuries like a holiday a year and not have to bulk meals out with cheap ingredients ever week and save a bit in case unexpected expensive events happen.

More beta- I believe that state education does exist even in London.

The OP has made a choice, a perfectly valid choice to educate he children privately, but she has no right to complain about not feeling rich. She will come across as ludicrously out of touch with reality, as do a lot of our current politicians.

MoreBeta, I think what puzzles many posters is how you could possibly describe a life where you are spending 10k on food and 3k on Christmas and birthdays (as per the OPs post) as a struggling middle class life? Where exactly does the struggle lie? In finding presents expensive enough?

The fact remains that a life where you have 50k over for just everyday living doesn't strike the majority of the population as a struggling life at all: it seems like an impossible dream. I can't say it worries me that there are people that live like that or that I'm jealous or anything. But I don't personally know anyone. So if that is a struggle, what is the definition of the life that everybody I do know lives?

My dad earned about 1/4 of that (mum was sahm), sent me to private school (boarding), had a 4 bed house, a holiday a year. We ate supermarket basics food, bought clothes in sales, or just not too often, had an extensive vegetable garden to provide pretty much all of the fruit/veg (we froze/canned the excess to eat during the winter) and the bday/xmas budget was 40 pounds per person. We did not feel 'rich', as others at my school blatantly were, and I remember desperately wanting just to buy something (foodwise) when shopping because I fancied it, to not have to scrimp and save with food particularly. My dad saved though, and their mortgage is now paid off. By comparison, I earn about 1/3 of what he did, hubby the same. We are careful, but if I want a cake, or a particular type of crisp, I can have it.

I guess it is about managing expectations. Comfortable to me, means I can buy something small if I want it. I would feel rich if I could just go out and get a TV, or a car or something 'just because'.

You could OP do the sums for living/buying outside London commuting in for work for one of you and perhaps one working more locally - looking areas where state schools have excellent reputations?

Or perhaps do what the Toby young guy seemed to be doing ? unable to afford private education for his DC campaign and set up a free school?

OP, you said that you work, the thread title says that your DH earns £250k, so how much do you earn? A few people have asked but I haven't seen an answer (sorry if I missed it).

We have 4 kids too and our total income inc dp wage, TC, CB etc is less than £30k. The only luxuries we have are Virgin TV and a 10 year old car that my partners parents bought, no holidays etc, dp and I only get a few new bits of clothes a year and usually only when we need them. Whatever you earn you cut your cloth accordingly, you choose to privately educate so you need to accept that it's sucking up a huge portion of what you have coming in. You still have plenty to live on and don't have to worry about where your next meal is coming from or choose between new shoes for the kids and putting the heating on, just having that piece of mind is priceless and most people would give thier right arm for that.

You really need to start thinking about and appreciating what you have got rather than focussing what you haven't.

Morebeta, hilarious. There are many schools in London that are actually FREE to attend.

Beta, 42k after mortgage isn't struggling. Really, it isn't.

There are people in London who are struggling to pay for everyday expenses after they have paid their mortgage and childcare costs, despite earning what would be pretty good salaries in other parts of the country. But the OP isn't in that category, even after school fees, not with a 5k holiday and 3k on Christmas and birthdays.

yabu as you have made choices that require substantial funding, you can economise, its no fun I know.

Today as well as losing entitlement to cb, dh found out his pension contributions are being doubled we are losing thousands as a result and it is difficult not to be pissed of about it. We are not extravagent, one english holiday a year, one old estate car, a very high public transport bill due to commute. I still recognise that we are fortunate and we will have to economise but we can and in the future I will work again (when dd2 starts school in sept) - hopefully I will be able to find work anyway.

In my eyes you're pretty nicely off if you can afford private school for 1. If you can afford it for 4 you're rich.

I assume you mean you don't have much disposable income after living expenses and school fees, which doesn't surprise me. However that fact that you phrase this as not feeling rich implies that you have come to see sending 4 kids to private school as some kind of basic essential, like food and utilities and rent. That's not a criticism, if it's a non-negotiable for you, and you can afford it, it is just another bill, I suppose. But if you stopped and remembered what an amazing luxury it actually is, maybe you would feel rich. You certainly should do.

FFS, what do you think happens to children who go to state schools in London? Do you think they turn out feral?

Some of you lot need to get your head out of your arse.

*"Bring up money in any other way other than you are on the breadline, and you will be brought down quickly and sharply"

I think that is true, but is as it should be tbh, bbface.*

Why? Seriously why? you are saying you should only talk about money if you are on the breadline, otherwise shut the hell up! Pleased to see that the Mumsnet Talk Guidelines do not share your view. Very short sighted IMO.

I suggest - and I am being genuine here - that if you want to see just how well off you actually are - try living off half of it for a year. Or a quarter of it.

Or £25,000 a year. Which is I believe, roughly the average wage.

Or, if you don't feel like losing your home and giving up your children's school places, sit down with a budget spreadsheet and try and see how you would have to change how you live, in order to live on £25,000 a year.

If that doesn't help you, then I suggest you volunteer at a homeless shelter, or samaritans helpline, or debt service or something.

"You really need to start thinking about and appreciating what you have got rather than focussing what you haven't."

That.