To not feel rich even though husband earns £250k a year

[whoovian]

I don't feel rich - I scarcely feel comfortable on this level of income.

Why is that - I grew up in a very poor family (not enough food at times type of poor) so I know what poverty feels like.

We are not extravagent spenders - we have one 1 week european holiday a year, no savings however we do have 4 children in private school(!) and live in London.

I feel unreasonable when I consider how little income others survive on but what do you think?

Perhaps it comes back to being a grammar school kid - the difference between what I had and other kids had was so great at times it was very distressing which had to be hid from my parents because they were trying so hard.

As a result I try very hard to ignore what those around me have (we are not a fancy holiday, flashy car lots of gadgets for the kids type of family) but I suspect that the environment I am in (professional, private school, london) is affecting me more than I had realised.

I agree with HelpOneAnother.

Our joint income is far beneath your DH's income but still higher than average for the Country. But, growing up I was one of five. Mum and Dad both worked hard but there were times when we really didn't have enough food either. Or we had to eat out of date food.

One of the things I most remember was that at school all my friends would be tucking into their crisps and chocolates at morning break and I would just look on, clutching my horribly empty stomach, feeling so hungry. I had no breakfast and had to wait until lunchtime.

Because of that, I send my 3 year old DD to school with more snacks than she would ever want to eat (healthy ones - because that's the rule of the school!), because I have a real fear of her being hungry.

But like HelpOneAnother, I know that we could live well on a tight budget. We waste money terribly at the moment, but I am going to budget this year to see just how much we can survive on and save as much as we can. For that day when we may be hungry, because with the economy the way it is, it's likely to happen at some point...

So I guess what I'm saying is, I do actually understand how you feel and feel that it is probably deeply inbuilt into you, that you will always worry about money, irrelevant to how much you have...

Seriously, whoovian buy a packet of seeds, and get digging. It's the only defence against the madness.

Does it matter that you don't feel rich, OP? Not many of us luxuriate in any feeling of prosperous well-being for very long, regardless of income. That's just life (and human psychology). If you're worried though, work on reducing your outgoings and building up savings. Sounds as though it's less about feeling rich (which is ultimately about comparing oneself with others) than feeling secure.

That sounds very likely Whoovian.

I think you need to do some things to help you break out of the social circle where everyone you know has stupid amounts of money. Maybe some voluntary work where you meet a more mixed crowd?

And take the kids camping or to a youth hostel for their next hol, instead of Europe. Something where they can meet other kids and make friends - which in the end, is what most affects whether they have a nice time or not.

Peka I read your long post and I think you are right. I'm way happier since I stopped caring about material things as much. It is hard in this crazy environment (London)

I don't actually think it's that extravagant - those feeding 5/6 where 3/4 of them are DC's, and spending less - age of DC's makes a huge difference.

It is easy to spend less on food if you are feeding 2 preschoolers and 2 infant age DC's.

Once you are feeding two adults, two teenagers that eat MORE than most adults plus two older primary DC's, I defy you to feed a balanced diet on less than £160 a week if you are including cleaning products and toiletries in that.

A teenager will always eat about 4 times as much food as a fully grown adult toddler, and it DOES push up the food bill.

And that works out to £8320 a year. So there's only £1680 a year 'wiggle room' in their shopping budget - only about £32 a week.

Maybe bulk buying washing powder when it's on offer, buying cheaper meat could account for that (we never eat lamb or steak, for example, to keep food bills down), but I don't think a £30 a week saving is going to help them feel any 'less skint' tbh.

It's the private school that is the highest unnecessary cost.

Food is an essential cost, and I can see that if the OP's DH is working long hours for that £250k, he's not going to want to give up the occasional steak dinner or lamb chops dinner...

Until your DC's have finished school, you are going to feel the effects of your DH's choice to send them to private school. But as it is his hard work that is paying the school fees, I can't see where the problem is.

Your DC's will have had the advantage of going to private school.

It's no different to me not paying for Sky TV (don't have it) or my Internet (my uncle pays it, long story) so that I can pay for an after school club for each of my DC's.

I can see the advantages of going without now so that my DC's get the long term benefit of having been involved in an after-school activity.

Ok, so I don't have certain things - but it is to benefit my DC's.

It's priorities.

I think you are feeling frustrated because you and your DH have different priorities where private school is concerned, and it isn't as essential an expense from the household budget for you as it is to him.

And it DOES grate more when spending priorities differ in a couple and it means one person in the couple going without what they perceive as the benefits of that income.

Maybe you need to discuss again the Private school issue with your DH?

DH poor as a church mouse as a kid and abandoned by his mum... aaagh

He earns good money now, but we have being have the same conversation since he earnt £20K, doesn't matter how much you earn its how much you spend. He thought that earning a good salary equates to him deserving what he wants...

Now finally he gets it, life is less stressful. For him it has coincided (not by chance I think) with being very settled and in control of his work-life balance.
While he did a job he hated he couldn't understand that he couldn't spend what he wanted, when he wanted. Now his satisfaction relates to other things not just his salary and spending potential.

Maybe, this whole thread is a covert, need to change our lives thread!! Does DH like his job or has the money become a trap he can't leave?

The environment can play such a big role in how you feel. we have friends who have 1 child and similar income levels to us...therefore more spending money if that makes sense. they do the costa/starbucks v regularly (I don't even drink coffee!), eat out (not necessarily at expensive places but they do eat out), and go to lots of events (panto, winter wonderland, plays etc) and because we've become really good friends with them, we've been dragged along (not that I'm complaining about the activities)... but hell, the amount of money we've spent in recent times have been so much more...!

So this January, I'm going to be alot firmer and not go to so many of these events. We didn't do panto and frankly, the kids didn't miss out (5 and 2?!)... we will eventually go to one, but just not now. Just like we have friends who've brought their kids to disney last half term - I don't have the money and I'm not sure the kids will remember just yet..! maybe in a couple of years....

Not read the whole thread but it is true that £250k is not a lot to live on with a family in London if you have them at private school.

A few years ago DW and me sat down and estimated we would need £500k a year to live well in London with children at private school. It is an exceedingly expensive place to live which is why most people move out once thay have children.

I agree with Peka. It is toxic living cheek by jowl with people who appear to be better off than you are. It doesn't matter what end of the income scale you are, if you see your peers doing better it can't help but make you feel inadequate.

Often you don't really know where people's money is coming from, either. I read that one third of school fees are paid by grandparents. Some people receive massive inheritances, too (imagine if you have a granny living in Surrey) which enables them to live a more extravagant life than someone on the same earned income.

Poor old you OP.
If you'd like to experience 'feeling rich' could you maybe go and volunteer at the local food bank?

Thanks madamelebean

OK, whoovian - the council tax payment is moot because even on a family income equivalent to your disposable income, in a band A 2 up 2 down, ours is more than half that. You're getting away very lightly with that one.

There's 2/3 as many of us in this house and we spend 2/3 as much on food, so no one could begrudge you that.

We put more than you into savings for the kids.

And put more of our own money into savings than you spend on holidays. That 8K you spend on holidays, christmas and birthdays needs to be lumped in with your "left over" 4K as they are not essentials. You could save half of that 12K and still have £500 a month with which to treat yourselves.

You ARE well off. Very well off. Your problem is that if all your children are at private schools, you will rub shoulders with the filthy rich on a regular basis. You probably also rub shoulders with people who think nothing of spending outside of their means and probably have 5 or 6 figure debts aside from their mortgage, so they will, at least temporarily, appear to be a lot wealthier than they really are.

Have to be honest we have friends who have similar incomes to our household income and always go on about how we go on 'flashy amazing holidays' and how they couldn't afford it. It makes me chuckle as I know we spend less on holidays than they do; we backpack - we shop around, get the best deals and cut corners on things that they wouldn't dream of. Most of the time we've managed to find incredible and different places to stay as a result, instead of soulless generic package holiday hotel rooms. Which is why I think they think we spend a fortune on holiday.

Equally, you get the couple who blew £40k on a wedding and you honestly wouldn't know what they'd actually spent the money on, when you compare it with the couple we knew who did it all themselves including the venue hire and food for 60 people for £1500.

I know which are richer experiences of life... You can't buy common sense. If you are a savvy shopper, you'll always make your money go further and probably be richer for it.

I do have to say I find this a lot of crap: It is toxic living cheek by jowl with people who appear to be better off than you are. It doesn't matter what end of the income scale you are, if you see your peers doing better it can't help but make you feel inadequate.

If you feel the need to constantly compare yourself and live up to other people's standards, you'll always be on a loser rather than living life how you want to.

Your basic problem is that you're living a millionaire lifestyle and you don't have the salary.

I think on paper it sounds a lot of money but once you've bought a nice home and paid four lots of private school fees, the disposable income left probably isn't much more than somebody on a third of that income living out of London using state schools.

The extravagance is perhaps being able to afford to have 4 dc in the first place, being able to live in a nice part of London and being able to have your dc privately educated.

But it's hard to see it if you're living amongst people with the same lifestyle.

Your food bill sounds reasonable to me. We spend about £7k on three of us.

I'd agree - it takes a huge amount of money to be truly rich now.

Times have changed such a lot. I went to private school in London in the 1980's and my parents had fairly low paid work. My dad was a line manager and my mum a part time nurse. They bought a five bedroomed house in a nice area. I would guess that me and dh are on a similar income but no way could we afford a house like that or afford private school fees.

Perhaps then OP, your problem (lack of feeling rich) could be solved by you yourself getting a job, perhaps preceeded by an all-round education, and earning your own money, to contribute to the family pot?

Just a suggestion.

OK, I hate competitive poor posts but just to put it in perspective for you, your annual food bill is 500 less than our net income last year.

My DH earns just over half that amount and I feel really, really rich and fortunate. Our DC are at state school, we have 3 amazing holidays a year (because thats are real big passion in life) a couple of mini breaks, private tutors for the DC, 2 meals out a week, have savings, pay lots into pensions, have a nice but not flashy home and average cars. Perhaps you are just one of those people if your income was in the millions it wouldn't be enough.

I'm a bit at your grammar school statement - having attended grammar school myself, I was led to believe that admission was upon merit - not income of parents!

Stop making excuses and use your brains - and those of your husband whom I'm going to assume has them in abundance to pull in such a salary and take a moment to ponder upon this:-

Mr Macawber said - 'Income 20 shillings, expenditure 20 shillings and sixpence, result misery. But income 20 shillings, expenditure 19 shillings and sixpence, result happiness'

Well there is only one thing for it OP. You and your DH need to sell a kidney each, that should help.

Obviously your fundamental mistake was in not having brighter children- if you'd had cleverer kids then you could have taken the dreadful risk of sending them to (shudder at the thought!!!) the local comp. A double win: you'd feel richer and BE richer, and they'd still get their A* grades.... plus mixing with other, less wealthy, folk might prevent them from inheriting the rather absurd sense of values and priorities that seem to be prevalent in your rarified world.

A third of that income would still put you in the top 5%. And would be more than four times the median, if I've read the table here correctly.
I think better-off people often have no idea how little most other people earn.