Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

Offred you do realise don't you that these proposals are not what the court case is about? That they are proposals being put forward by the bus company to avoid litigation, not by those bringing the case?

You do also realise don't you that the judge won't interpret the law to require seperate pram spaces as prams aren't covered by any disability/equality legislation?

No it isn't about that Offered, as you seem to be objecting to their enforcement, excellent back peddle there.

Not for people with back problems, balance issues, multiples etc.

What is wrong with expecting bus companies, when they modify their fleets to create wheelchair spaces, to dedicated them solely for the use of wheelchairs and at the same time provide a pram space, maybe even back up this right to a dedicated wheelchair space by having a bye law which means they can give a fixed penalty to anyone storing, sitting etc in the dedicated wheelchair space at anytime?

zeeboo at no point have I said I wa unwilling to fold. I physically cannot dismantle it single handed to fold it and would new someone to help me do this before getting on the bus, to hold various parts throughout the journey if no storage and then help me off and put it back together. Forgive me if it seems easier to just get of the fucking bus!

"I'm suggesting buses make easy modifications to existing fleets in order to comply with existing legislation."

But, unaccountably, this lovely, chatty, family friendly lawyer from Arriva hasn't listed that as one of the possible options. How very strange. And he seems like such an intelligent chap, too.

Maybe we should all post on the fb page kindly pointing out his oversight? I mean, it must be an oversight, mustn't it? Because if it's not, that would mean that he was deliberately omitting the only fair and equitable option from the list in the assumption that NCT members are too dim to spot this and will reject all the other (mostly stupid) options given as unreasonable and say what he wants them to say like dumb little glove puppets that he works with a hand up the jacksie.

Offered, I did say for the majority ffs!

Thanks SockReturningPixie I'll have a look at that one. I've had some other recommendations by PM so I've got lots of homework to do.

Women are a protected group it isn't unheard of for legislation to be interpreted in such a way as to make things like this fall under equalities legislation.

How does having multiples classify you as disabled?

It doesn't glitter...

So then that wouldn't apply to fathers with prams then? Isn't that a bit discriminatory?

LMAO Glitter! ! Seems to be the implication doesn't it?

Since when did DRs not come under equalities legislation Runs to tell colleagues

Just a bit. I'm loving the listing wheelchair/SN buggies Oh ! And multiples for the MULTI USE space (that isn't multi use at all)

No the implication is that it is not only people who use wheelchairs who have additional needs and there is no need to make any of these proposals which would mean it was fine to block the space with your arse or your bag but not with your pram... Bit stupid eh?

Good point Manic.

So men with pushchairs would still have to fold?

I just don't see how your idea (of two separate areas and fines etc) is better than just having better staff training and signs and public awareness of the primary function of a wheelchair space? All those things are cheap and if they are enforced, they would be effective. What you are suggesting will cost loads of money, bus companies wont want to do it, people will get pissed off at having empty space on a bus all the time.

We go on and on about how we're living in a nanny state - FFS, these are the kind of changes - ones that assume that people can't (with encouragement) do the correct thing - that lead to people feeling like that. Since clearly everyone is incapable of learning the right and wrong way to use a bus, we should make every single group have their own designated space?

The money would be better spent on a decent ad campaign, staff training, and adequate policing so that the people who refuse to move, can get kicked off the flippin' bus.

No, because there would be a pushchair space...

Offered, what are you on about? in all my numerous years of trying to travel independently, the wheelchair space has never been blocked by anyones physical arse, or other obstructions; but it has been blocked by an arsehole with a pram

Because the current situation isn't working easily. All the training in the world cannot get around the fact bus drivers don't have time to argue with passengers and won't be inclined to enforce throwing young families of an ill equipped bus.

Well I have seen plenty of people blocking disabled spaces with their arses and luggage.

How is that relevant. Women who are entitled are protected just like disabled people who are entitled (wheelchair users or not) are protected yes, the protection is for simply being disadvantaged not because people might morally deserve it.